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DHS Issues BOD Banning Kaspersky from Federal Government

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Re: DHS Issues BOD Banning Kaspersky from Federal Government

#61
post #17

This is very bad for Kaspersky. Put aside how much revenue the entire GSA market represents for a security company (it'll be a double-digit percentage for a typical company). The bigger problem is that in the wake of this, every systemically important financial firm will also eject Kaspersky. In addition to being another significant chunk of revenue, major financial firms set the buying direction for IT security for…

Looks like this comes from the Dave Aitel July 12, 2017 blog post, "What Kaspersky Means for Cyber Policy":

https://cybersecpolitics.blogspot.com/2017/07/what-kaspersky...

which references this July 11, 2017 Bloomberg BusinessWeek article, "Kaspersky Lab Has Been Working With Russian Intelligence - Emails show the security-software maker developed products for the FSB and accompanied agents on raids":

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-11/kaspersky...

Previous discussion:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14743092

Re: DHS Issues BOD Banning Kaspersky from Federal Government

#62
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we don't speculate at all, we're left with the following bullet points from news articles this year: - Michael Flynn was paid by Kaspersky to speak at its seminar (probably nothing, but mildly interesting) - US Intel community considers Kaspersky to be an arm of the Russian government - Kaspersky employee arrested in sting by Russian government for treason - US Intel officials believe Kaspersky employees in US eng…

Have you tried getting a reporter at Reuters on the phone to make sure they know this? It seems like big, if true.

These are all public news reports which I'm sure Reuters' Russian desk is aware of. And it's all just entertainment to me, so I have no interest in verifying. But I don't see how it qualifies as big.

The NSA was tapping calls from the personal cellphone of the Chancellor of Germany. The CIA created a Twitter clone that Congress funded just so they could destabilize the Cuban government. There's many more examples of our infiltrating foreign entities with men in sunglasses who all claim to work for the state department.

Asking a non-US company to spy for the US government, and then retaliating against them when they balk, seems minor on the average scale of geopolitical intrigue.

Re: DHS Issues BOD Banning Kaspersky from Federal Government

#63
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried getting a reporter at Reuters on the phone to make sure they know this? It seems like big, if true.

These are all public news reports which I'm sure Reuters' Russian desk is aware of. And it's all just entertainment to me, so I have no interest in verifying. But I don't see how it qualifies as big. The NSA was tapping calls from the personal cellphone of the Chancellor of Germany. The CIA created a Twitter clone that Congress funded just so they could destabilize the Cuban government. There's many more examples of…

Your bullets are attributable, to varying levels of accuracy, to news sources.

Your supposition that DHS has cracked down on Kaspersky in retaliation for Kaspersky's refusal to spy for the US is not.

Again: big, if true!

Re: DHS Issues BOD Banning Kaspersky from Federal Government

#64
post #59

I am deeply suspicious of the criticism heaped on Kaspersky, and I suspect it might be part of a smoke and mirrors attempt to distract us from actual threats. The US IC community is deeply ingrained in the antivirus and computer security industries. NSA employees go to work for these companies, and vice versa. Foreign governments have just as much to fear from Norton and McAfee, as we do from Kaspersky.

How does that conclusion follow your premise? Premise: US AV companies are deeply connected to the US intelligence communities. Conclusion: Deep suspicion of criticism that a Russian AV company may be connected with Russian intelligence communities?

Right. As a US citizen, I guess I would pick the US spying on me if I had to choose between the US and a foreign government.

Re: DHS Issues BOD Banning Kaspersky from Federal Government

#65
post #36
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the same. Most EU countries are allied with the US. Most of them hold negative or downright hostile views towards Russia.

I am unsure what exactly makes a country an "ally" of America (aside of diplomatic relations), but the US IC do have history of industrial espionage against the EU and other trading partners: https://theintercept.com/2014/09/05/us-governments-plans-use...

If they're in NATO then they're an ally.

Also, interesting you posted a Glenn Greenwald article - he has been accused by some people in the U.S. of dismissing things Russia has done recently in these fronts.

Re: DHS Issues BOD Banning Kaspersky from Federal Government

#66
post #31
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the same. Most EU countries are allied with the US. Most of them hold negative or downright hostile views towards Russia.

1. This can change easily and actually has changed already with Trump not renewing the NATO wow. 2. Why take any risk that you can avoid?

Sure, these are still valid concerns, but they are different when framed from an alliance/adversary point of view.

Re: DHS Issues BOD Banning Kaspersky from Federal Government

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was also this article a few days ago about an intentional CIA backdoor in Microsoft products that Kaspersky was plugging: https://theunhivedmind.com/news/2017/09/12/us-explodes-after...

I'm not gonna completely judge a site based on it's links. But that site is pretty putrid on the links it displays. It doesn't exactly lend credence to it. A sampling: The Holocaust Hoax Exposed The Synagauge of Satan 9/11 Nuclear Demolition The HIV Myth Adolf Hitler Greatest Untold Story

I upvoted you.

My apologies.

Re: DHS Issues BOD Banning Kaspersky from Federal Government

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never heard of that site. Any reputable site reporting in this that we can trust?

Seeing as this site calls HIV a myth, the holocaust a hoax, 9/11 a nuclear test, and the Jewish religion a Satanic cult... I don't think it is _super_ trust worthy.

Upvoted. My bad.

Re: DHS Issues BOD Banning Kaspersky from Federal Government

#69
post #17

This is very bad for Kaspersky. Put aside how much revenue the entire GSA market represents for a security company (it'll be a double-digit percentage for a typical company). The bigger problem is that in the wake of this, every systemically important financial firm will also eject Kaspersky. In addition to being another significant chunk of revenue, major financial firms set the buying direction for IT security for…

If we don't speculate at all, we're left with the following bullet points from news articles this year: - Michael Flynn was paid by Kaspersky to speak at its seminar (probably nothing, but mildly interesting) - US Intel community considers Kaspersky to be an arm of the Russian government - Kaspersky employee arrested in sting by Russian government for treason - US Intel officials believe Kaspersky employees in US eng…

I think it's a very interesting timeline you've laid out. The piece I don't follow is the conclusion.

> Take all of that, and ask yourself this. Would the US govt, which already had suspicion to remove them, and had been getting the ball rolling since at least May or before then, ask them to spy on behalf of the US in Russia, and if they balk, remove their funding and damage their reputation? To me that's real reason: they wouldn't play ball.

I'm no expert at this, but I can't think of any circumstance where US intelligence would both simultaneously believe they are a branch of the Russian govt and ask them to spy in Russia on their behalf. Almost with 100% certainty if the US is spying in Russia it is against their geo-political foe Russia's interest. You wouldn't pass your secretly gathered intelligence through a branch of the Russian govt before returning it stateside. The secret intelligence is almost certainly about the Russian govt - no way you'd pass it through them to get it back to you. At minimum they'd know what you know, at maximum they'd manipulate it to deceive you. Again this is all speculation on my part here, but I don't see it supporting that conclusion.

Clearly something changed to cause the sudden urgency to eliminate Kaspersky from govt computers. Additionally the urgency to me speaks more to eliminating a threat (of espionage or else) rather than retaliation. 30-90 days in govt time is pretty much as immediate as it gets.

I think something else changed or was discovered. An option is US intelligence found out evidence of escalation of alleged actions by Kaspersky either in the recent past or plans for the near future. Again I've got no evidence of this - but is what seems like it better fits the points we've seen so far.

Re: DHS Issues BOD Banning Kaspersky from Federal Government

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech sovereignty is going to be one of the most important international issues of the next few decades. The US has mostly lucked out so far, being the home of the overwhelming majority of major tech firms. But China has very purposefully taken steps to secure and guarantee their technological sovereignty, and there is movement in Europe to do the same.

I wonder where the technological sovereignty of the individual exists in the midst of this…

Right alongside all the other aspects of individual sovereignty that society has chosen to abrogate.
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