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Amazon is hiring the most MBAs in tech, and it’s not really close

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Re: Amazon is hiring the most MBAs in tech, and it’s not really close

#61

Post by petroseskinder »

mi100hael wrote: post #26
staunch wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's a master's in business administration not business innovation . Amazon is the perfect example of where MBAs can be extremely effective. The way Tim Cook helped Apple optimize and improve its operations a great example.

The way Tim Cook Ballmerized Apple into a company coasting on its past success rather than continuing to innovate is a great example of the pitfalls.

One thing to note about Ballmer's tenure is that Microsoft's stock tanked. That doesn't seem to be the case with Cook.

Re: Amazon is hiring the most MBAs in tech, and it’s not really close

#62

Post by uji »

colmmacc wrote: post #31
rothbardrand wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why Amazon is a horrific place to work for engineers and why they are such a complete failure with products.... for every success Amazon has about a hundred failures (Amazon catalogs online, amazon moving listings, A9, etc.) Amazon throws money at ideas and throws ideas against the wall to see what sticks. AWS was launched as a fraud (using no amazon infrastructure at the time, they claimed it was bui…

Amazon engineer here! I love our culture of strong ownership and autonomy, and that we'll take risks, tolerate failures and give things around 7 years to mature and pay off. It's super rewarding to be able to own things and see them through, and to see things like AWS, Kindle and Alexa go big places. I've had my own projects work out and I've had things abandoned, and both experiences have been positive in the long r…

I agree with rothbardrand@ here, I recently moved from AWS. Amazon is very top-down where developers are heavily managed by their immediate managers (and thats why they need so many MBAs). Our team of 15 engineers had 4 managers, who would push engineers to the edge to meet deadlines. From what I observed, this leads to very high turnover rate, and teams with lot of junior engineers who are asked to assume roles of previous project leads. New hires are brainwashed about increase ownership and responsbility. But after some years, they all realize the game and move over to different company.

Re: Amazon is hiring the most MBAs in tech, and it’s not really close

#63

Post by mabbo »

rothbardrand wrote: post #15
sulam wrote: post #12

Amazon is a company that clearly lets the strategists actually implement their strategies. That's working reasonably well for them (with some obvious flops, but more than enough success to make up for it and then some). It's no surprise MBAs want to go there. Strategy jobs are some of the most hotly sought after roles -- my wife went to a top tier MBA program and I regularly have to hang out with people she want to s…

This is exactly why Amazon is a horrific place to work for engineers and why they are such a complete failure with products.... for every success Amazon has about a hundred failures (Amazon catalogs online, amazon moving listings, A9, etc.) Amazon throws money at ideas and throws ideas against the wall to see what sticks. AWS was launched as a fraud (using no amazon infrastructure at the time, they claimed it was bui…

5 years at Amazon, almost all as an SDE. I don't really feel like what you've said is entirely accurate.

> for every success Amazon has about a hundred failures

This ratio is off, but even if it weren't it's still not a detracting statement. At Amazon, we're allowed to fail sometimes. Try something quickly, iterate, test, and let it die. Google used to be similar, though they've 'streamlined' a bit more lately.

> outside of the AWS organization you end up working for idiots

Never worked for AWS, can't speak for them. But in my org (Fulfillment) I've worked for incredible managers and a few not-so-great ones but never anyone I'd call an idiot. This isn't a place where smooth-talkin' MBAs thrive. If you bullshit and can't back it up with results, you won't last long.

Most of the MBAs I've met at Amazon were for the Operations world anyways. The Pathways program (https://www.amazon.jobs/en/teams/university-mba-graduate) puts new MBA grads into leadership positions at the fulfillment centers and sees what they're made of. Hard work, but if you do well you go really far very fast.

Re: Amazon is hiring the most MBAs in tech, and it’s not really close

#64

Post by horseShoez » 

  and it's not really close
Uh, not really close to what? Close stopping it's MBA feeding frenzy? Close with any of the MBA's it hires on a personal level? Close to any other company in terms of hiring these kinds of candidates? Close to being able to support the positions it's filling, and will have to lay them all off?

What is "close" supposed to mean in that headline?

Re: Amazon is hiring the most MBAs in tech, and it’s not really close

#65

Post by gcb0 »

chollida1 wrote: post #28
gcb0 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're defending someone who dreamed up something ("Amazon is good at data driven decisions") versus someone presenting a fact ("Amazon does lots of dumb things but got very lucky so far"). why?

I'm not sure why you had to react so angrily but there are a lot of people who would defend Amazon as being a data driven company. here is one instance. This is not a hard claim to back up by any means. https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/237326 http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-amazons-data-driven-approa... Here they are being called out for being too data driven http://splinternews.com/the-amazon-way-why-the-data-…

my point is that who claims amazon is data driven are usually pundits and outsiders.

in this thread the person who (claim to have) worked there said otherwise. and in your second link Bezos also said otherwise.

amazon is as data driven as any other fortune 500.

quit fetichising it.

Re: Amazon is hiring the most MBAs in tech, and it’s not really close

#66

Post by Caveman_Coder »

nexus2045 wrote: post #59
curun1r wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the other criticism of MBAs is that they're taught to take a very narrow view to running a business that is overly focused on growth and efficiency. As much as startups are lionized around here, I like to hope that a lot of us also respect the "lifestyle" approach to business, bootstrapping and other approaches that are less focused on growth. I have a parent who taught at a top-10 business school. A number o…

Reminds me of the parable about the Harvard MBA who meets a fisherman in Mexico.

"What Really Matters in Life? Mexican Fisherman Meets Harvard MBA" - https://www.wanttoknow.info/051230whatmattersinlife

Re: Amazon is hiring the most MBAs in tech, and it’s not really close

#67

Post by UK-AL »

colmmacc wrote: post #33
beastcoast wrote: post #14

Interestingly Amazon doesn't offer any incentives to get an MBA if you're already working there. No tuition reimbursement, raises or promotions. You're more valued as an external MBA hire.

I know I'll sound like a cultist, and I am, but I earnestly pitch to people that working at Amazon is an opportunity to get a free MBA. People now realize that Amazon has been doing dev-ops for a long long time, but we've also been doing BizDevOps. If you want to, as an engineer, as project manager, as any role really, you can step up and get deeply involved in the business. It's never not your place. As engineers, w…

Unfortunately companies hire based on things that are easy to verify.

MBAs are easy to verify.

A software engineer claiming to things that mba knows is hard hard to verify.

Re: Amazon is hiring the most MBAs in tech, and it’s not really close

#68

Post by staunch »

mi100hael wrote: post #26
staunch wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's a master's in business administration not business innovation . Amazon is the perfect example of where MBAs can be extremely effective. The way Tim Cook helped Apple optimize and improve its operations a great example.

The way Tim Cook Ballmerized Apple into a company coasting on its past success rather than continuing to innovate is a great example of the pitfalls.

Steve Balmer is no Bill Gates. Tim Cook is no Steve jobs.

Not exactly their fault for failing to live up to some of the most impressive founders in history. At least Tim Cook is humble and wise enough to know his limits.

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