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Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

economist.com

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Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#91

Post by Applejinx »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #27
jnbiche wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly agree with your argument regarding economic-class determinism or whatever it's called. After all, some of the most progressive policies for the poor in this country were passed by the wealthiest presidents (FDR, Kennedy, Johnson). However, if you're suggesting that Silicon Valley CEOs are in favor of libertarian free trade, I think I agree more with the article and disagree with you. Silicon Valley CEOs lo…

>>After all, some of the most progressive policies for the poor in this country were passed by the wealthiest presidents (FDR, Kennedy, Johnson). You mean regressive policies that hurt the poor, right? The War on Poverty marked the end of the decline in the American poverty rate. The social welfare state gradually sapped American industrial vitality and the labour productivity growth that had been fueling wage gains…

But labor productivity growth doesn't cause any wage gains anymore, hasn't for decades upon decades.

Probably worth asking if you assert that American corporate taxes are the highest in the world: sometimes there are just major, major reality-based differences in the discourse and it's useless talking any further. I know I can't believe some of your axioms here, unfortunately.

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#92

Post by CalChris »

mc32 wrote: post #68
rb2k_ wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sam Altman runs YC now and as of last year was apparently seriously considering running for governor of California. That strikes me as grandiose and not good for society Arnold Schwarzenegger was the Governor of California. At least as far as the 'what makes him qualified' thing goes, apparently that's not a real concern for voters :)

Let's not forget Grey Davis' being a politician didn't help California against rolling brownouts and massive deficits in the 2000s.

> Let's not forget Grey Davis' being a politician didn't help California against rolling brownouts and massive deficits in the 2000s.

The correct spelling is Gray Davis [1].

The rolling brownouts were caused by Enron [2] who was enabled by legislation (AB 1890) that his predecessor Pete Wilson signed in 1996 [3]. People went to jail for that. [4]

There were no massive deficits under Davis. When the tech bubble burst in 2001, there was a revenue decline but that's about it.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_Davis

[2] https://www.ferc.gov/industries/electric/indus-act/wec/enron...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron_scandal

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#93

Post by coldtea »

andrewjl wrote: post #71
coldtea wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bullshit. You're committing the fallacy that comes from Marxist thought--- that one's position/class/socio-economic-factors are the determining factors in their values and beliefs. People are not so simple, their thoughts can come from elsewhere. You're wildly underestimating the sentience of these people. Humans want to believe that they are not so simple, but usually they are. We're more caricatures than snowflak…

How to explain the behavior of people like Nick Hanauer, who advocates higher taxes on the wealthy?[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Hanauer

There will always be some outliers when speaking of human affairs.

I mentioned mainstream movies above and it's similar: the majority loves them and flocks to them. But still some would legitimately rather watch a Tarkovsky or some really obscure creators.

To quote myself above: "Humans want to believe that they are not so simple, but _usually_ they are" (emphasis mine). In other words, you can find one Hanauer. Heck, you could find 10 Hanauers. But I doubt you can find 10,000 or even 100. Most of the SV bosses beliefs are determined by their wealth/role/position.

Heck, even old Marx (to whom they idea that people's class/position etc determines their values/beliefs was attributed above [1]) very well knew that. His friend Engels was a wealthy industrialist heir, but very much a communist. And Kropotkin was a prince from a wealthy family -- but ended an anarchist. The overwhelming majority of industrialists and princes however never made those jumps to the other side.

[1] And he indeed wrote it and popularized it, but it was not uniquely his.

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#94

Post by mhh__ »

sheepmullet wrote: post #82
Iv wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump lowered the bar so much that most people think they can do a better job than the current president, and are probably right. What they miss is that running as a republican is very different than running as a democrat (as I guess most tech people would want to). Zuckberg would beat Trump in the democratic primaries, no question about that. But he won't be in front of Trump, he would be in front of many experience…

> What they miss is that running as a republican is very different than running as a democrat Yeah the republican primaries are more fair and balanced - we all saw what happened to Bernie in the democratic primaries.

I have my doubts that Bernie would have won the primaries even if he was the one being helped. He ended up losing by 3.7e6 votes.

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#95

Post by zo1 »

jnbiche wrote: post #19
civilian wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. You're committing the fallacy that comes from Marxist thought--- that one's position/class/socio-economic-factors are the determining factors in their values and beliefs. People are not so simple, their thoughts can come from elsewhere. You're wildly underestimating the sentience of these people. I think a better model is that: People who understand economics tend to both be entrepreneurs (they understand t…

I strongly agree with your argument regarding economic-class determinism or whatever it's called. After all, some of the most progressive policies for the poor in this country were passed by the wealthiest presidents (FDR, Kennedy, Johnson). However, if you're suggesting that Silicon Valley CEOs are in favor of libertarian free trade, I think I agree more with the article and disagree with you. Silicon Valley CEOs lo…

One big thing that I've started noticing, is that "migration" is incredibly easy for rich people. That may lead to their "global" mindset, and wanting it for everybody else.

There are countries out there (including America) where you can get long-term stay papers or citizenship by simply investing into the country. You're essentially "buying" your way in. Most of the necessary amounts are probably "peanuts" for the celebrities and tech-leaders we have today.

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#96

Post by pen2l »

Iv wrote: post #59
aaron-lebo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote it, I don't feel like being an ass and I'm feeling overly aggressive today, not to mention I am a guest in someone else's house. ...but my overall point is that the tech elite is composed of a lot of rich white guys with connections, who naturally help each other out. Sam Altman runs YC now and as of last year was apparently seriously considering running for governor of California. That strikes me as grandios…

Trump lowered the bar so much that most people think they can do a better job than the current president, and are probably right. What they miss is that running as a republican is very different than running as a democrat (as I guess most tech people would want to). Zuckberg would beat Trump in the democratic primaries, no question about that. But he won't be in front of Trump, he would be in front of many experience…

> Zuckberg would beat Trump in the democratic primaries, no question about that.

So, where is this all coming from -- that Zuckerberg wants to run for president? I'll bet my house and every last penny I own, he does not want to be president, he will never run for president.

Oh, and he would never win. He's an insanely smart dude, but he hasn't got the charisma to win presidency.

(I do think that a lot of people on HN should run for some higher office in gov't, particularly tptacek and rayiner).

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#98

Post by 0xbear »

Iv wrote: post #59
aaron-lebo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote it, I don't feel like being an ass and I'm feeling overly aggressive today, not to mention I am a guest in someone else's house. ...but my overall point is that the tech elite is composed of a lot of rich white guys with connections, who naturally help each other out. Sam Altman runs YC now and as of last year was apparently seriously considering running for governor of California. That strikes me as grandios…

Trump lowered the bar so much that most people think they can do a better job than the current president, and are probably right. What they miss is that running as a republican is very different than running as a democrat (as I guess most tech people would want to). Zuckberg would beat Trump in the democratic primaries, no question about that. But he won't be in front of Trump, he would be in front of many experience…

If you feel like you can do a better job of winning an election against a Clinton and the entirety of mainstream media, you should run in 2020. Against Trump, naturally, so we confirm the hypothesis.

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#99

Post by jonny_eh »

pen2l wrote: post #96
Iv wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump lowered the bar so much that most people think they can do a better job than the current president, and are probably right. What they miss is that running as a republican is very different than running as a democrat (as I guess most tech people would want to). Zuckberg would beat Trump in the democratic primaries, no question about that. But he won't be in front of Trump, he would be in front of many experience…

> Zuckberg would beat Trump in the democratic primaries, no question about that. So, where is this all coming from -- that Zuckerberg wants to run for president? I'll bet my house and every last penny I own, he does not want to be president, he will never run for president. Oh, and he would never win. He's an insanely smart dude, but he hasn't got the charisma to win presidency. (I do think that a lot of people on HN…

> He's an insanely smart dude

That's why I agree with you that he wouldn't run for president.

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#100

Post by zo1 »

raldi wrote: post #51
enraged_camel wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>The stereotypical left-wing position is, "This government program should be left alone, even if it's poorly-run" No, it is "This government program is poorly-run probably because it is severely underfunded." After all, "government is poorly-run" tends to become a self-fulfilling prophecy: it is used to justify spending cuts, which does in fact result in performance problems.

That is true -- it's a very effective playbook to starve a program of funding and then argue it should be eliminated because "it doesn't work".

So is the other playbook, where effectively every excuse always boils down to "we need more money" or "we're underfunded".
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