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Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

economist.com

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Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#41

Post by davidivadavid »

sremani wrote: post #32
projectramo wrote: post #17

I don't like these categories but while we are playing this game: Aren't libertarians also globalists?

The current global trade (non-software) relies on security provided by US Navy. Global Trade is not Free Trade! You need a security under-writer for it. I think Libertarians have a "blind-spot" there.

I'm not sure about that, unless you're conflating libertarians with anarcho-capitalists. Minarchist libertarians would actually consider that making free trade possible through military might is in the purview of the state.

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#42

Post by mythrwy »

enraged_camel wrote: post #28
raldi wrote: post #16

The stereotypical right-wing position is, "This government program is poorly-run; let's get rid of it" The stereotypical left-wing position is, "This government program should be left alone, even if it's poorly-run" The stereotypical Gray Tribe position is, "This government program is poorly-run; let's debug it"

>>The stereotypical left-wing position is, "This government program should be left alone, even if it's poorly-run" No, it is "This government program is poorly-run probably because it is severely underfunded." After all, "government is poorly-run" tends to become a self-fulfilling prophecy: it is used to justify spending cuts, which does in fact result in performance problems.

Which is often another ways of saying "This government program is poorly-run. So lets double it!".

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#43

Post by yahna »

raldi wrote: post #16

The stereotypical right-wing position is, "This government program is poorly-run; let's get rid of it" The stereotypical left-wing position is, "This government program should be left alone, even if it's poorly-run" The stereotypical Gray Tribe position is, "This government program is poorly-run; let's debug it"

> The stereotypical left-wing position is, "This government program should be left alone, even if it's poorly-run"

Think it's more like "Lets spend more money to fix it".

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#44

Post by tpeo »

civilian wrote: post #10
mattnewton wrote: post #9

I think more simplistically: when you take this group of people and average them out what you get are beliefs that benefit the large companies they represent. That's the signal that is correlated with running a big tech company, and the rest is probably mostly noise. That's all really, they aren't for or against free trade in aggregate, they are for their company trading profitably, on average.

Bullshit. You're committing the fallacy that comes from Marxist thought--- that one's position/class/socio-economic-factors are the determining factors in their values and beliefs. People are not so simple, their thoughts can come from elsewhere. You're wildly underestimating the sentience of these people. I think a better model is that: People who understand economics tend to both be entrepreneurs (they understand t…

This doesn't have anything to do with Marxism. The notion that people might have ulterior motives is as old as the hills.

The actual Karl Marx, on the other hand, didn't think that people's beliefs were determined by their social class. Rather that their behavior was ultimately determined by their social class regardless of any personal beliefs.

It's true that free trade in principle doesn't benefit large companies. But in principle, it doesn't hurt them either. Free trade and largeness can be largely orthogonal issues. And so can largeness and market power.

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#45

Post by guelo »

raldi wrote: post #16

The stereotypical right-wing position is, "This government program is poorly-run; let's get rid of it" The stereotypical left-wing position is, "This government program should be left alone, even if it's poorly-run" The stereotypical Gray Tribe position is, "This government program is poorly-run; let's debug it"

Why would the left-wing not want to improve a poorly run program?

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#46

Post by yellowapple »

If they favor free trade and redistribution of wealth, then they're still able to be libertarians.

Libertarianism and globalism are not mutually exclusive. There's a whole spectrum of libertarians from anarcho-capitalists to libertarian socialists (I'm somewhere in the middle-left, I'd reckon). The unifying trait is the belief that individual freedom is paramount.

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#47

Post by jmcmichael »

civilian wrote: post #10
mattnewton wrote: post #9

I think more simplistically: when you take this group of people and average them out what you get are beliefs that benefit the large companies they represent. That's the signal that is correlated with running a big tech company, and the rest is probably mostly noise. That's all really, they aren't for or against free trade in aggregate, they are for their company trading profitably, on average.

Bullshit. You're committing the fallacy that comes from Marxist thought--- that one's position/class/socio-economic-factors are the determining factors in their values and beliefs. People are not so simple, their thoughts can come from elsewhere. You're wildly underestimating the sentience of these people. I think a better model is that: People who understand economics tend to both be entrepreneurs (they understand t…

People who understand capitalism tend to be entrepreneurs, as they understand the rules of the game. But capitalism does not equal economics. I would even venture to say that people who consider themselves capitalists have a woefully limited view of the field of economics, and a general misunderstanding of the origins of money, markets, and debt. Although they certainly can do a good job of making profits within the mess of an economic/political system that we currently have to endure.

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#48

Post by sremani »

davidivadavid wrote: post #41
sremani wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current global trade (non-software) relies on security provided by US Navy. Global Trade is not Free Trade! You need a security under-writer for it. I think Libertarians have a "blind-spot" there.

I'm not sure about that, unless you're conflating libertarians with anarcho-capitalists. Minarchist libertarians would actually consider that making free trade possible through military might is in the purview of the state.

You may be right, but what is libertarian idea of maritime trade in hostile world and how would a free market established in such circumstances.

(I am not asking for full answer.. you can point me books or links)

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#49

Post by WalterBright »

civilian wrote: post #10
mattnewton wrote: post #9

I think more simplistically: when you take this group of people and average them out what you get are beliefs that benefit the large companies they represent. That's the signal that is correlated with running a big tech company, and the rest is probably mostly noise. That's all really, they aren't for or against free trade in aggregate, they are for their company trading profitably, on average.

Bullshit. You're committing the fallacy that comes from Marxist thought--- that one's position/class/socio-economic-factors are the determining factors in their values and beliefs. People are not so simple, their thoughts can come from elsewhere. You're wildly underestimating the sentience of these people. I think a better model is that: People who understand economics tend to both be entrepreneurs (they understand t…

To generalize, businessmen feel that free trade is great for every other business, but their business is special and should be enshrined as a government enforced monopoly :-)

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#50

Post by harveywi »

JPKab wrote: post #23
Shivetya wrote: post #8

their categories are broad enough to arrive at any result they wanted. still I never ever considered any of the SV bosses to anything close to libertarians.

I think that SV founders fall into a pretty solid category of people who were raised by educated, successful people. My main concern with this is that people raised by successful, hard-working people don't understand poverty and the culture around it. Zuckerberg is a perfect example. He's a guy who preaches about tolerance, diversity, and inclusion, but he grew up in an upper middle class suburb that was lily white a…

>The real reason is the culture of poverty.

That's a bold claim.

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