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What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

fivethirtyeight.com

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Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#101

Post by billmalarky »

buxtehude wrote: post #54
biggerfisch wrote: post #38

I think the saddest part of this article is perhaps the glancing statement it makes about how prison isn't a place of recovery and rehabilitation. The prison system here really is too focused on punishment and locking people up forever rather than helping them get back on their feet and being productive members of society

Unfortunately, the drug war and punishing users of non-sanctioned drugs is embedded deep in America's political and social DNA - but seeing how much has changed in some areas of drug policy especially with variations from state to state - I hold out some hope that we might see some changes there too - but I just wouldn't hold my breath.

It's not just America's DNA. Many countries around the world base their drug policy off of US drug policy.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#102

Post by logfromblammo »

In short, the published science says to addict the patient to methadone or suboxone instead of whatever they are on, for a lifetime of perpetual treatment.

Actual drug users are likely to recommend using kratom to alleviate withdrawal symptoms and ibogaine (or another powerful hallucinogen) to permanently remove the addiction.

"Science" does not recommend this, because politics has made the hallucinogens--and research into their therapeutic uses--at least as illegal as the opioids that cause all the problems. As someone with an opioid addiction is likely already routinely breaking some rather serious laws, and frequently courting sudden death by overdoses or adulterants, it may be worth trying the single dose of ibogaine before choosing the lifelong maintenance therapy.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#103

Post by trentnix »

glibgil wrote: post #78
gozur88 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what you're saying is that black people can't be trusted to have their own opinions because of institutional racism? Words fail.

> So what you're saying is that black people can't be trusted to have their own opinions because of institutional racism? Words fail No, I'm saying that you cannot make an appeal to authority. It is a logical fallacy. Just because some blacks were in favor does not mean it was not racist

And thus that's the trap that has been set: if you don't follow the recommendations of black leaders, you're a racist. If you follow the recommendations of black leaders, you're a racist.

Even a poorly powered AI in 1983 figured out the only way to win is to not play the game.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#104

Post by gozur88 »

glibgil wrote: post #78
gozur88 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what you're saying is that black people can't be trusted to have their own opinions because of institutional racism? Words fail.

> So what you're saying is that black people can't be trusted to have their own opinions because of institutional racism? Words fail No, I'm saying that you cannot make an appeal to authority. It is a logical fallacy. Just because some blacks were in favor does not mean it was not racist

If this were a group of white politicians and community leaders seeking tougher sentences for crimes occurring in their neighborhoods, I'm pretty sure we'd be hearing a debate on the merits of the proposal.

But because black politicians and community leaders came to the conclusion that tougher sentences for crack dealers are warranted based on their experience it must be because of institutional racism. It's like they've come to a conclusion you don't agree with so you feel free to dismiss their agency. Help me out here, because it's the only way I can read this.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#105

Post by Zarath »

kchoudhu wrote: post #2

Now that the opioid crisis is a problem for white people, science makes an appearance in the policy discussion. Contrast to the crack epidemic in the 80s: fuck'em, throw them all in prison. Edit to add: I wish the best of luck to those who have been caught up in this crisis: I'm rooting for you, and I hope every last one of you find the treatment you need. For those of us who aren't affected, it's time for some deep…

Really sad that this is the top comment here. How about instead of immediately making it a racial issue, maybe we consider that we've learned something from the crack epidemic of the 80s on how to better deal with such problems? Or we could also consider that the opioid problem is different because the source of such problems is pharmaceutical companies and the doctors prescribing them, rather than some illegal drug smuggling trade. I'm not saying any of these hypotheses are correct, just that immediately making this a race issue does absolutely no good.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#106

Post by [deleted] »

ubernostrum wrote: post #64
otakucode wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is extremely helpful. It is very incovenient, to be sure, but it is very helpful. If you want people to not use drugs, then you have to provide them with a fulfilling life or the opportunity for such. If your desire is to operate a society that grinds people down, restricts them in ways that feel burdensome to them, insults them, and also does not have people using drugs? You might as well wish to fly. Because you…

Never mind people who get addicted after being prescribed medication for an injury, then? Never mind that the new generations of opioids were marketed as safer/less addicting when they probably were more addicting, and thus prescribed even more out of perception of their safety?

[deleted]

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#107

Post by mrguyorama »

biggerfisch wrote: post #38

I think the saddest part of this article is perhaps the glancing statement it makes about how prison isn't a place of recovery and rehabilitation. The prison system here really is too focused on punishment and locking people up forever rather than helping them get back on their feet and being productive members of society

The prison system is highly privatized. Prisons with more people in them make more money and have a higher return on investment. Prisons that have repeat visitors can out compete prisons that do not. Therefore, there is a selection towards not keeping an inmate out of prison in the future.

I hate how tinfoil hat-y this sounds, and I'm certainly no expert, so feel free to offer alternatives

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#108

Post by tptacek »

Zarath wrote: post #105
kchoudhu wrote: post #2

Now that the opioid crisis is a problem for white people, science makes an appearance in the policy discussion. Contrast to the crack epidemic in the 80s: fuck'em, throw them all in prison. Edit to add: I wish the best of luck to those who have been caught up in this crisis: I'm rooting for you, and I hope every last one of you find the treatment you need. For those of us who aren't affected, it's time for some deep…

Really sad that this is the top comment here. How about instead of immediately making it a racial issue, maybe we consider that we've learned something from the crack epidemic of the 80s on how to better deal with such problems? Or we could also consider that the opioid problem is different because the source of such problems is pharmaceutical companies and the doctors prescribing them, rather than some illegal drug…

I'd say it does the good of reminding us that where black communities face retributive drug policies, white communities tend instead to get therapeutic drug policy. That seems like an important detail, not an artificial concern.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#109

Post by tptacek »

gozur88 wrote: post #104
glibgil wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what you're saying is that black people can't be trusted to have their own opinions because of institutional racism? Words fail No, I'm saying that you cannot make an appeal to authority. It is a logical fallacy. Just because some blacks were in favor does not mean it was not racist

If this were a group of white politicians and community leaders seeking tougher sentences for crimes occurring in their neighborhoods, I'm pretty sure we'd be hearing a debate on the merits of the proposal. But because black politicians and community leaders came to the conclusion that tougher sentences for crack dealers are warranted based on their experience it must be because of institutional racism. It's like the…

You keep repeating this argument. Its premise is invalid. It was not in fact black politicians that raised the sentences for crack cocaine in relation to powder cocaine; it was the overwhelmingly white US federal legislature.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#110

Post by eropple »

Zarath wrote: post #105
kchoudhu wrote: post #2

Now that the opioid crisis is a problem for white people, science makes an appearance in the policy discussion. Contrast to the crack epidemic in the 80s: fuck'em, throw them all in prison. Edit to add: I wish the best of luck to those who have been caught up in this crisis: I'm rooting for you, and I hope every last one of you find the treatment you need. For those of us who aren't affected, it's time for some deep…

Really sad that this is the top comment here. How about instead of immediately making it a racial issue, maybe we consider that we've learned something from the crack epidemic of the 80s on how to better deal with such problems? Or we could also consider that the opioid problem is different because the source of such problems is pharmaceutical companies and the doctors prescribing them, rather than some illegal drug…

You are "not saying any of these hypotheses are correct," but boy howdy are you really up on making sure he doesn't put forward one you don't like, yeah?

Saying "X is X" does not mean you are "making it X". If you think he's making it a racial issue, you might want to consider that it just might be actually a racial issue.

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