The Pentagon Is Spending Up To $2.2B on Soviet-Style Arms for Syrian Rebels • Hacker News Board

Re: The Pentagon Is Spending Up To $2.2B on Soviet-Style Arms for Syrian Rebels

#91

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 4:14 PM UTC

gras wrote: post #74

I guess it makes sense, seeing how Israel is known to have supported Al-Qaeda by taking care of wounded soldiers in the border zone. I thought it was strange that Israel supported a group that the US was officially fighting, but I wrote it off as part of Israel's policy of destabilizing its neighbors. Could someone explain to me why Al Qaeda and ISIS are aligned with Israel's interests? I don't understand why they li…

> Could someone explain to me why Al Qaeda and ISIS are aligned with Israel's interests?

Much the same reason as Hamas is (and why Israel was instrumental in creating Hamas because it's the enemy they want to have): it's an opponent to their existing more established enemies that creates instability and conflict among Arab and Muslim grouos, and because if it succeeds in displacing the existing groups rather than merely weakening and destabilizing them while killing lots of Arabs, it's ideology is much easier to turn international opinion against.

Re: The Pentagon Is Spending Up To $2.2B on Soviet-Style Arms for Syrian Rebels

#92

Post by jaxytee » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 4:14 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #50

PeachPlum wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The WaPo is not an independent reporting body, its parent group Amazon, has juicy contracts from the CIA, you can trust nothing it prints.

Amazon is not WaPo’s parent; Bezos owns it independently of Amazon.

Still a conflict of interest.

Re: The Pentagon Is Spending Up To $2.2B on Soviet-Style Arms for Syrian Rebels

#93

Post by evunveot » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 4:16 PM UTC

hLHEDuYtSh wrote: post #14

This article makes it sound like the program is ongoing, but I am not sure how to reconcile this with stories like this, which claim that the program has been cancelled: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump... Does anyone have insight here?

This is about what the Pentagon/military is doing. The CIA had its own operation.

"Reporters have pieced together the Pentagon’s complex supply line to Syria using procurement records, ship-tracking data, official reports, leaked emails, and interviews with insiders. This program is separate from a now-defunct CIA effort to arm rebels fighting Syrian President Bashar Al-Assad."

Re: The Pentagon Is Spending Up To $2.2B on Soviet-Style Arms for Syrian Rebels

#94

Post by keldaris » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 4:18 PM UTC

CapitalistCartr wrote: post #55

totalZero wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting aside every other part of this discussion: I don't think a state actor can be accurately described as sociopathic. The expectations and interactions among nations are fundamentally different from those among people.

Then why is it so many other countries don't act as we do? USSR under Joe did; that's hardly a ringing endorsement. Any Scandinavian country would be a good counter argument. Finland has withstood Soviet/Russian intimidation for more than seven decades without running around instigating insane, right-wing police states across the Globe.

> Then why is it so many other countries don't act as we do?

That's simple: they're weak and can't get away with it. The baseline conduct of nation states is basically that of fairly rational psychopaths, capable of evaluating what they can get away with. Deviations from that norm are mostly reminiscent of irrational psychopaths. Anyone who expects "moral", "just" or "trustworthy" behavior from a nation state is just out of their mind.

Re: The Pentagon Is Spending Up To $2.2B on Soviet-Style Arms for Syrian Rebels

#95

Post by iovrthoughtthis » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 4:18 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #32

jdhn wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, is anybody surprised by this? It's quite clear that when it comes to sponsoring groups in the Middle East, we just throw money/weapons at anyone, no matter who they are.

I've been saying this for years. "The CIA created ISIS. Not just funded, but created the situation where such organizations could come up." I constantly get criticized for this. "No, of course America isn't funding ISIS. We're fighting them." I then talk about The Bay of Pigs, the 1973 Coupe in Chile, Iranian Contras, The School of the Americas ... a criminal rap sheet that shows a pattern of sociopathhy by the US go…

We've always been at war with Eastasia

Re: The Pentagon Is Spending Up To $2.2B on Soviet-Style Arms for Syrian Rebels

#96

Post by chinhodado » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 4:21 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #37

baursak wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, they are trying to support a secular and a relatively liberal (relative to an alternative) regime against ISIS and other jihadis, yes. To see an alternative, take a look at Libya after Gaddafi where there are literally slave markets in 2017.

Fun fact, Gaddafi didn't run the country. No media outlets reported on the democratically elected head of state in Libya. They also didn't report on the free electricity, subsidized housing, subsidized fuel, free education and the fact that Libya was stable and in no debt to the WMF. Now they are in debt to the WMF, are a totally non-stable state ravaged with crime and their slowly progressively moving government has…

What do you mean by "didn't run the country"? Do you mean "ruin" instead?

Re: The Pentagon Is Spending Up To $2.2B on Soviet-Style Arms for Syrian Rebels

#97

Post by zacurry » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 4:23 PM UTC

alexandercrohde wrote: post #83

X86BSD wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the reason Syria was destabilized by the US. Natural gas to Europe. Period. This is not about Assad, the US is simply demonizing him to justify their destruction of another secular soverign country. Russia supplies Europe with almost all of its natural gas. This is unacceptable to the west. What the west wants is to drag nat gas up from Qatar through Syria to the med and north into Europe breaking Russia's st…

do you have any sources for these claims?

I wouldn't be too surprised if this is true. The USA wants to ensure that all energy deals are done using their "petro" dollar.Assad could have/is threatened to trade using euro , much like Saddam did(Iraq made a windfall from that decision when euro went up) before the Iraq war.Many people say that was one of the motivations behind the Iraq war.

Re: The Pentagon Is Spending Up To $2.2B on Soviet-Style Arms for Syrian Rebels

#98

Post by meri_dian » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 4:24 PM UTC

This is a damned if we do damned if we don't sort of situation. People are horrified by Assad's regime, so the US is called to take action. Arming rebels is one way it has taken action. Unfortunately in a situation as complex as Syria some of those weapons inevitably fall into the hands of rebels groups we do not want to be associating with.

On the other hand if the US were to do nothing, people would decry the injustice of such a powerful nation ignoring - tacitly accepting - the mass murder of civilians.

There are no good answers here.

Edit: Any country, not just the US, that tried to get involved in foreign affairs to the degree that the US has would inevitably have negative outcomes. Involving oneself in messy situations usually leads to messy conclusions.

Re: The Pentagon Is Spending Up To $2.2B on Soviet-Style Arms for Syrian Rebels

#99

Post by richardknop » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 4:27 PM UTC

notfromhere wrote: post #61

baursak wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This literally started a couple of months ago under Trump, along with ending CIA's weapons running program. Here Trump truly deserves credit and outshines Nobel Peace laureate Obama. If he removes PKK from the US list of terrorist groups, that would be a 3 for 3 for him, although I'm not holding my breath.

US has been supporting the Kurds longer than trump's term in office

The level of support is what's important. Under previous administration the support was on a very low side and much more support was thrown behind sunni states (Turkey for example) and extremist sunni militias. This has changed under Trump and it seems like the support will be shifted away from extremist sunni militias and towards Kurds. I have to give Trump credit for this.

Re: The Pentagon Is Spending Up To $2.2B on Soviet-Style Arms for Syrian Rebels

#100

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 4:27 PM UTC

CapitalistCartr wrote: post #55

totalZero wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting aside every other part of this discussion: I don't think a state actor can be accurately described as sociopathic. The expectations and interactions among nations are fundamentally different from those among people.

Then why is it so many other countries don't act as we do? USSR under Joe did; that's hardly a ringing endorsement. Any Scandinavian country would be a good counter argument. Finland has withstood Soviet/Russian intimidation for more than seven decades without running around instigating insane, right-wing police states across the Globe.

> Finland has withstood Soviet/Russian intimidation for more than seven decades without running around instigating insane, right-wing police states across the Globe.

Some would say “submitted to” rather than “withstood”; heck, accommodating a powerful neighbor out of fear and inability to effectively resist is called “Finlandization” for a reason.