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Java EE Is Moving to the Eclipse Foundation

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Re: Java EE Is Moving to the Eclipse Foundation

#91

Post by _pmf_ »

needusername wrote: post #33
shagie wrote: post #15

This is IBM finally beating Sun over control of enterprise Java - something they've been fighting for for well over a decade (and much closer to two). IBM has been trying to get the Java process away from Sun - and they even backed an IDE to compete with NetBeans. Eclipse... of the Sun (Microsystems). Apparently, Oracle has finally gotten tired of IBM (through Eclipse) saying "we can do it better" and trying to manag…

Nope, this is Oracle stop caring about Java EE. They are not doing this for Java SE as long as they are caring about Java SE. I also doubt IBM still cares about Java EE. Their last JSR (Batch/JSR-352) was particularly disgusting and seems to be abandoned already.

> Nope, this is Oracle stop caring about Java EE. They are not doing this for Java SE as long as they are caring about Java SE.

That's strange. How do they make money off SE but not EE? EE has been the cash cow that kept Java alive after applets fell out of favor.

Re: Java EE Is Moving to the Eclipse Foundation

#92

Post by tajen »

geodel wrote: post #25
shagie wrote: post #15

This is IBM finally beating Sun over control of enterprise Java - something they've been fighting for for well over a decade (and much closer to two). IBM has been trying to get the Java process away from Sun - and they even backed an IDE to compete with NetBeans. Eclipse... of the Sun (Microsystems). Apparently, Oracle has finally gotten tired of IBM (through Eclipse) saying "we can do it better" and trying to manag…

This is the time when Oracle and IBM both know Java EE is past sell by date. IBM is betting Swift and Go now.

I don't understand. What companies that are targetted by Java EE supposed to use in the future?

Re: Java EE Is Moving to the Eclipse Foundation

#95

Post by vbezhenar »

alangibson wrote: post #61
skocznymroczny wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just replacing XML with JSON doesn't make anything modern.

Where XML really shines is as an interchange format between the type of mission critical upgraded-once-a-decade systems that are the bread and butter of Big Business IT. I think XML got it's bad rep from people applying it where it's bulk and complexity is just not needed. For instance, storing configuration for an application that you completely control or shuffling around data inside of an application domain that y…

XML is not a good interchange format, because it doesn't map well to a standard programming structures. There's no array or map in XML. Developers must use OXM libraries (object to xml mapper). JSON is much more direct and simple format.

XML is good for anything that looks like document markup.

Re: Java EE Is Moving to the Eclipse Foundation

#96

Post by Delmania »

_pmf_ wrote: post #91
needusername wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, this is Oracle stop caring about Java EE. They are not doing this for Java SE as long as they are caring about Java SE. I also doubt IBM still cares about Java EE. Their last JSR (Batch/JSR-352) was particularly disgusting and seems to be abandoned already.

> Nope, this is Oracle stop caring about Java EE. They are not doing this for Java SE as long as they are caring about Java SE. That's strange. How do they make money off SE but not EE? EE has been the cash cow that kept Java alive after applets fell out of favor.

If I remember correctly, Oracle has a licensing scheme if you want to build and release your own JVM. Java SE always has significant more usage in production thanks to Android, Kotlin, Clojure, and Scala. While Java EE does get used a lot in more conservative large enterprises, the alternatives developed to overcome the inherent complexity of EE (Spring, Hibernate) get a LOT more. Java EE is big, but Java SE is even bigger.

Re: Java EE Is Moving to the Eclipse Foundation

#97

Post by ro_sharp »

EtienneK wrote: post #68
shagie wrote: post #15

This is IBM finally beating Sun over control of enterprise Java - something they've been fighting for for well over a decade (and much closer to two). IBM has been trying to get the Java process away from Sun - and they even backed an IDE to compete with NetBeans. Eclipse... of the Sun (Microsystems). Apparently, Oracle has finally gotten tired of IBM (through Eclipse) saying "we can do it better" and trying to manag…

I would argue that Pivotal has beaten both of them with Spring.

I'd like to note here that Spring being popular doesn't mean it's good. Also see: nodejs

Re: Java EE Is Moving to the Eclipse Foundation

#99

Post by UK-AL »

cjsuk wrote: post #80
UK-AL wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"mandating method call order and call count)" - Very few people use mocks like that. Most people use them glorified stubs for returning data. Personally these days I just in memory datastores.

We do use mocks like that. How else do you test that a complex piece of logic doesn't try and perform the same operation twice, such as a trivial case of sending only one message to a queue? Without the assertion, you are left with an assumption, which from experience isn't reliable and keeps you up at night.

Because it makes refactoring very difficult. One of the original intentions of TDD and Unit testing was to make refactoring much easier.

If you start testing the internals of function, it makes it very difficult to refactor without breaking tons and tons tests.

We only test on publicly exposed functions, and check the changes on the data or external services.

It means we can do major refactoring's of internals, keep public functions the same but tests will still pass.

One of the biggest mistakes that happened was that kent beck was misinterpreted and Unit was considered a code unit, when really it means a unit of behaviour.

Re: Java EE Is Moving to the Eclipse Foundation

#100

Post by hacking_again »

shagie wrote: post #15

This is IBM finally beating Sun over control of enterprise Java - something they've been fighting for for well over a decade (and much closer to two). IBM has been trying to get the Java process away from Sun - and they even backed an IDE to compete with NetBeans. Eclipse... of the Sun (Microsystems). Apparently, Oracle has finally gotten tired of IBM (through Eclipse) saying "we can do it better" and trying to manag…

Wow, after 15 years or whatever it is, I never made the connection between Eclipse and Sun!
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