It appears my Google account is slated for deletion • Hacker News Board

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#151

Post by AstralStorm » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 7:22 AM UTC

drama-queen wrote: post #31

tpeo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, lots of people saw this coming light-years away. People really should stop ignoring the TOS.

Society really should stop tolerating this type of TOS.

Society prefers cheap and available solutions. It so happens that this one comes with draconian ToS everyone ignores. (And via bandwagon so does all the credible competition.)

The only way to deal with this is right regulation to make such terms illegal or forcibly breaking up such monopolies.

Or running a cheap or free equivalent service by a big carrier, but government whatever is being ignored as a solution and nobody else has the clout to challenge Alphabet.

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#152

Post by shevy » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 7:22 AM UTC

maccard wrote: post #139

KGIII wrote: post #7

Well, she is easier to defend than Nazis. So, here I go... Freedom of expression, not just free speech the legal concept, should be a societal goal. Google has every right, legally, to delete this stuff. However, in an ideal world, they'd do no such thing and would let people judge based on the merits of the message. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd like to work towards that ideal world. Maybe the solution…

To play devils advocate - are you ok with YouTube brings discovery and hosting platform for extreme Islam propaganda, or neo nazi/far right? Or what about less extreme content deliberately designed to mislead and draw attention to an issue (see the constant barrage of lies published in tabloid newspapers directed at certain hot topics, ranging from slightly misleading to downright lies). I also don't see what the ISO…

There are already certain laws that prohibit certain content.

But this is not the issue in this case; neither are ISIS propaganda videos.

This here is corporate and state-controlled censorship that has no legal basis at all whatsoever aimed at controlling research. That is MUCH worse than propaganda by others.

> Where do you stand on copyrighted content, on illegal > material (some of which may be legal in some countries > but not others), distasteful or offensive material?

Again - how does your comment relate to censoring research or information that the US government arbitrarily considers "illegal"?

> If you want to share politically sensitive content, > I think it's fair to say that YouTube isn't your friend.

Google runs Youtube. So, Google is not your friend. I agree with this.

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#153

Post by Joeri » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 7:23 AM UTC

While google should tread carefully here, I have to wonder why this stuff was hosted from a google account in the first place.

It is easier and cheaper than ever to set up your own web hosting and host this stuff outside of a walled garden where it won't violate a TOS. Google accounts are for storing personal files in the cloud, not publishing important documents to the public.

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#154

Post by AstralStorm » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 7:25 AM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #124

KGIII wrote: post #7

Well, she is easier to defend than Nazis. So, here I go... Freedom of expression, not just free speech the legal concept, should be a societal goal. Google has every right, legally, to delete this stuff. However, in an ideal world, they'd do no such thing and would let people judge based on the merits of the message. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd like to work towards that ideal world. Maybe the solution…

Google has every right, legally, to delete this stuff. However, in an ideal world, they'd do no such thing...the continued aggressive censorship by Google, while their legal right, leaves a bad taste in my mouth. They can do it, but I don't have to like it. One does not get to "Organize the World's Information" and do so without exemplary intellectual honesty and regard to morality.

In any ideal world yes. In real world fiefdoms exist.

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#155

Post by KGIII » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 7:31 AM UTC

shevy wrote: post #148

KGIII wrote: post #7

Well, she is easier to defend than Nazis. So, here I go... Freedom of expression, not just free speech the legal concept, should be a societal goal. Google has every right, legally, to delete this stuff. However, in an ideal world, they'd do no such thing and would let people judge based on the merits of the message. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd like to work towards that ideal world. Maybe the solution…

> Google has every right, legally, to delete this stuff. Please quit defending censorship. Thank you.

You read my post and THAT is what you took from it? Oh, wow... I'm not even remotely defending censorship, I think it's horrible. That doesn't mean they don't have a right to do so. It does mean I don't think they should.

You might want to read my whole post, maybe the whole thread.

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#156

Post by AstralStorm » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 7:31 AM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #84

snerbles wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This works until a registrar revokes your domain name.

It's turtles all the way down at this point. The reality is that you can't get content on the internet without the approval of at least a few entities. If/Until the culture changes the best practical advice is to make sure that those few entities are distanced from your message that they won't be pressured to take it down.

Well, nobody can ban a hidden website yet (.onion or .i2p).

However barrier of entry there is still a bit high and they're still vulnerable to attacks, hosts don't want anything to do with them either.

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#157

Post by zaphirplane » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 7:40 AM UTC

stale2002 wrote: post #97

jiggunjer wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are comparing a postal service (1:1) with a broadcasting service (1:many). ISPs should be neutral carriers, but websites should be free to offer whatever services and terms they like. Given equal services, supply and demand should kill the ones with the most unfair ToS. The question of liability is more difficult, it might help if users had to register as real persons or companies (i.e. providing ID).

Why do you think that the distinction between 1:1 and 1:many matters? I see no reason why 1:many platforms shouldn't have the same protections as a 1:1 platform.

Why should a for profit company be obligated to do something for you. Setup an irc or any xmpp server and knock your self out, oh you want to publish to people that find it offensive ! Too bad Ps you is not personally you more the wiser position

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#158

Post by zaphirplane » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 7:43 AM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #126

sbov wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How tightly bound we are to just a few large tech companies is... unfortunate. I would love it if it were easier for the common person to host their own stuff. Between all the concerns involved (security, hardware, demand, etc.) I'm not sure how feasible it is. I've given it a lot of thought, and have slowly unwound my custom tech setups - from domains, to emails, to hardware. Mostly for the "bus" factor. When my dad…

Indeed, this! It's true that the process of setting up and managing websites can be daunting. Even using shared hosting, let alone on a VPS. And then there's the additional complexity of HTTPS, which is now pretty much the norm (even when not really needed, with no account creation or payment processing). Using Micah Lee's OnionShare, one can easily create Tor onion sites.[0] They can be transient (for file-sharing)…

people arguing (out of principal or to push their views) for some kind of freedom to publish on a for profit company's site are simply seeking that company's audience to spread their message

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#159

Post by zaphirplane » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 7:47 AM UTC

wallace_f wrote: post #83

KGIII wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the trouble when nobody will allow you to host your legal content because they disagree with the message. Hell, even registrars are refusing to point to an IP address. I know... We all hate Nazis. I get it. I don't like them and, being not white, they definitely don't like me. But, they are the current good example of what happens when the controllers decide you can no longer share your legal content.…

It wasn't too long ago that we had the McCarthy era, where speech professing communism was effectively targeted by what were basically thought police. Just as then you don't have to advocate free speech because you are a communist, now you don't have to advocate it because you are a Nazi. You advocate it to protect against authoritarianism.

I appreciate your argument and the "when they came for me" quote. As an intellectual argument doesn't the government also exist to protect people, this is mostly about where the line is drawn between protecting society from some of its harmful members and protecting society from the government. Hard line to draw

Re: It appears my Google account is slated for deletion

#160

Post by Stranger43 » Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 7:48 AM UTC

hossbeast wrote: post #138

glenstein wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great point, because I think it shows that people who are trying to redefine the contours of the standard free speech conversation (which had historically been about freedom from government imposed limits) are attempting to solve the wrong problem. The problem is dependence on huge monolithic tech platforms, such that we feel that the societal value of free expression is threatened by the standard forms mod…

Are there any companies out there trying to make it easy for consumers to legitimately own/host all their own digital content? If the price was reasonable people would go for it, as long as setup and maintenance is transparent (that's what the company's services help you achieve). If the networks were federated .. like e.g. Mastodon ...

How would such a company avoid having the choice of not selling to people they don't want to be associated with.

And then we come to hosting which is a gray zone in most retail contracts actually offering usable upload mostly because of bandwidth concerns and do we really trust the likes of Comcast not to play dirty when put under external pressure in regards to unpopular speech.