Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

60 journalists all spend one week covering Cincinnati's battle with heroin

cincinnati.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 139 posts

Re: 60 journalists all spend one week covering Cincinnati's battle with heroin

#21

Post by mschuster91 »

indemnity wrote: post #13
mschuster91 wrote: post #6

Shocking to read. But what really shocks me is the amount of arrests mentioned for possession of heroin or syringes. When will the US (and the rest of the world) finally learn that locking users up just perpetuates the problem - you won't get a job with a criminal record, same for housing. All this arresting does is fill the coffers of (private) jails and creates needless suffering. Also, why do people keep calling t…

I’m surprised that drug use is normalised to the extent that you can say with a straight face that the state should provide heroin. I’m not in favour of punitive measures, but the state providing it? Really? I’d also like to see data on providing a milder form of an opiate working better to wean people off a dependency. So far, all I’ve seen is the dependency switching to the replacement.

> I’m surprised that drug use is normalised to the extent that you can say with a straight face that the state should provide heroin.

People won't stop doing drugs, so it is more than justified to try to reduce the harm done by having people rely on street dealers:

- wildly fluctuating dosages, leading to ODs

- "stretching" agents, from harmless herbs in weed over rat dung to fentanyl in heroin (which doesn't mix evenly so you end up, from the same supply, with one dose having vastly more of the stuff than the other) and their associated side effects

- massive amounts of cash (2010: 109 billion dollars per https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-03-10/more-pot-...) funneled to the black market. This "competition for cash" creates violence by itself (e.g. gang turf wars), creates massive incentives for bribery (if I were a customs agent, I don't know if I'd say no to a million dollars for letting the occasional shipment through), directly funds wars and destabilizes countries (e.g. Afghanistan, Mexico) and also increases the amount of crimes the users do in order to afford a dose (e.g. if a user needs, for the same amount of heroin, to rack up 10$ vs 1000$, then the amount of crime he has to do in order to get said money is reduced massively)

> So far, all I’ve seen is the dependency switching to the replacement.

Better have the money flow to the state in form of taxes and (in a fully state-provided drug regime) revenues, than in the coffers of hardcore criminals.

Re: 60 journalists all spend one week covering Cincinnati's battle with heroin

#22

Post by lurker456 »

mulmen wrote: post #20
kolbe wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know everyone pictures the kid with a broken arm getting it set when they hear about socializing medicine, but all I picture is the US paying large corporations to make more people OD on opioids.

We don't have socialized (single-payer) medicine but we are still over-prescribing painkillers. Why do you think socializing medicine would change this? Do countries that have single-payer healthcare have more or less problems with heroin and prescription drug abuse?

less, for several reasons

- in the US system, treating symptoms instead of the underlying cause is easier for the doctor and more profitable in the long run.

- "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"; less patients that wait until pain is unbearable (due to its cost) which then need different treatment.

- less conflict of interest that affect what doctors prescribe

- there is only one buyer, with a strong negotiation position, potential profits are capped

Re: 60 journalists all spend one week covering Cincinnati's battle with heroin

#23

Post by tyingq »

mschuster91 wrote: post #11
tyingq wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also, why do people keep calling the cops on relatives and friends who OD? They probably call 911 in the US, and the dispatcher is deciding who to send. Is there something that suggests otherwise? Separate from OD cases, though, friends and family DO often try to turn in loved ones. Addiction often turns your loved ones into genuine risks for other family members. And, sadly, jail is often the only existing place to…

> They probably call 911 in the US, and the dispatcher is deciding who to send. Is there something that suggests otherwise? Ah, that explains it. In Germany, it's split - 110 calls the cops, and 112 medical/fire services. > And, sadly, jail is often the only existing place to send them if you can't have them in your house. It's a short-term fix, unfortunately. People suffering from addiction issues should not be in j…

>It's a short-term fix, unfortunately.

Agreed. If there were a reasonable alternative, people would use it. There's not really anything like that in the US. The private institutions for addiction are shams. They exist to drain your insurance for 1 to 2 weeks, then boot the patient out until the insurance renews again a year later. They do nothing to fix addiction...just milk it for money.

Re: 60 journalists all spend one week covering Cincinnati's battle with heroin

#24

Post by pjc50 »

kolbe wrote: post #17
baldfat wrote: post #4

Let's not forget who to blame for this. Pharmaceutical companies and Doctors. West Virgina is the most effected - http://www.pulitzer.org/winners/eric-eyre These articles shouldn't make you sad but MAD. "In six years, drug wholesalers showered the state with 780 million hydrocodone and oxycodone pills, while 1,728 West Virginians fatally overdosed on those two painkillers" That's 433 pills for every man, woman and ch…

I know everyone pictures the kid with a broken arm getting it set when they hear about socializing medicine, but all I picture is the US paying large corporations to make more people OD on opioids.

I'm sure the US could mess it up that badly, but it doesn't have to be that way.

Re: 60 journalists all spend one week covering Cincinnati's battle with heroin

#25

Post by pjc50 »

indemnity wrote: post #13
mschuster91 wrote: post #6

Shocking to read. But what really shocks me is the amount of arrests mentioned for possession of heroin or syringes. When will the US (and the rest of the world) finally learn that locking users up just perpetuates the problem - you won't get a job with a criminal record, same for housing. All this arresting does is fill the coffers of (private) jails and creates needless suffering. Also, why do people keep calling t…

I’m surprised that drug use is normalised to the extent that you can say with a straight face that the state should provide heroin. I’m not in favour of punitive measures, but the state providing it? Really? I’d also like to see data on providing a milder form of an opiate working better to wean people off a dependency. So far, all I’ve seen is the dependency switching to the replacement.

Normally done in the form of methadone. It's not great, but it's better than death or inprisonment.

Re: 60 journalists all spend one week covering Cincinnati's battle with heroin

#26

Post by cjy »

CaliforniaKarl wrote: post #15

I was born in Cincinnati, and lived there for 18 years until going to Ohio State. Today I live on the peninsula. I'm here in Cincinnati now, for family stuff. And I'm concerned. Cincinnati still has a large industrial component (P&G has their HQ here), but many factories are gone. A lot of the east side of the city has been converted into microbreweries, homes, and shopping. My Mom works at a biomedical company that'…

I live in Cincinnati. I don't think gentrification is responsible for the opioid epidemic. I would blame the increase in the supply of opioids and structural changes to the economy. Plenty of places without gentrification (rural Indiana) are being hit even harder.

I'd also disagree that moving back would exacerbate the problem. A higher tax base would help the city to better combat the problem. You could also donate to non-profits or volunteer.

Re: 60 journalists all spend one week covering Cincinnati's battle with heroin

#27

Post by icebraining »

mschuster91 wrote: post #6

Shocking to read. But what really shocks me is the amount of arrests mentioned for possession of heroin or syringes. When will the US (and the rest of the world) finally learn that locking users up just perpetuates the problem - you won't get a job with a criminal record, same for housing. All this arresting does is fill the coffers of (private) jails and creates needless suffering. Also, why do people keep calling t…

Families calling the cops is absolutely essential when the addicted person is harmful to others and refuses to get help, even if for understandable reasons (like fear of withdrawal). Hopefully the courts would offer a choice to get themselves interned into a rehabilitation house, like they do here, but that's a second step.

Re: 60 journalists all spend one week covering Cincinnati's battle with heroin

#28

Post by makomk »

mulmen wrote: post #20
kolbe wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know everyone pictures the kid with a broken arm getting it set when they hear about socializing medicine, but all I picture is the US paying large corporations to make more people OD on opioids.

We don't have socialized (single-payer) medicine but we are still over-prescribing painkillers. Why do you think socializing medicine would change this? Do countries that have single-payer healthcare have more or less problems with heroin and prescription drug abuse?

I believe countries with single-payer healthcare have less problems with this, but they also have very different cultures around the amount of healthcare and drugs they provide. I can't see it being politically viable to impose single-payer-style restrictions on access to healthcare in the US any time soon.

Re: 60 journalists all spend one week covering Cincinnati's battle with heroin

#29

Post by tankenmate »

lurker456 wrote: post #22
mulmen wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't have socialized (single-payer) medicine but we are still over-prescribing painkillers. Why do you think socializing medicine would change this? Do countries that have single-payer healthcare have more or less problems with heroin and prescription drug abuse?

less, for several reasons - in the US system, treating symptoms instead of the underlying cause is easier for the doctor and more profitable in the long run. - "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"; less patients that wait until pain is unbearable (due to its cost) which then need different treatment. - less conflict of interest that affect what doctors prescribe - there is only one buyer, with a strong n…

Also with one buyer they are more keenly aware of when one particular drug or class of drugs spikes in usage.

Re: 60 journalists all spend one week covering Cincinnati's battle with heroin

#30

Post by majormajor »

DanBC wrote: post #7
humbleMouse wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy crap that's insane. That's 72 pills per year for each man woman and child.

The US uses more than 99% of the world supply of hydrocodone. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/03/15/ameri...

Having recovered from surgery both with- and without-hydrocodone, it's not hard to understand why. It works really really well as a painkiller.

I hope there is a solution that can address addiction and abuse without eliminating the drug itself. A less judgmental approach than spiking it with acetaminophen which just makes abuse do even more damage.

I have similar mixed feelings about prescription stimulants. They work, but a lot of people end up abusing them.

Post reply on HN