Mercedes Has the Horsepower for Tesla Battle
bloomberg.com
Mercedes Has the Horsepower for Tesla Battle
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Re: Mercedes Has the Horsepower for Tesla Battle
#2The problem isn't that Mercedes, VW, and other big automakers don't have more horsepower in terms of dollars to spend on R&D than Tesla. To abuse the car analogy, it's a problem of momentum and power-to-weight ratios.
Mercedes needs to do a complete 180 to become an electric car manufacturer. Employees with education and years of experience in internal combustion engines will fight their obsolescence. Plants and production lines that are specialized for ICE manufacturing will buck against the change. Their supply chain, dealerships, and repair shops will have the same problems and will also provide resistance.
It's one thing to pivot a little start-up company that's maybe a few dozen people who have just been applying generic engineering and sales techniques to a domain that they've only just invented in the past year or two. A behemoth like Mercedes does not pivot. It trundles along and slowly, almost imperceptibly, shifts course over a long period of time.
Mercedes needs a lot more horsepower for the battle than Tesla does.
Re: Mercedes Has the Horsepower for Tesla Battle
#3Previous discussion of Mercedes' announcement:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15219469
However, what surprised me in this article is the following:
> VW has earmarked 50 billion euros for batteries for its electric cars
That's more than Tesla's current market cap.
Edit: Seems I missed the article on the front page, as the latter is also being discussed:
Re: Mercedes Has the Horsepower for Tesla Battle
#4The problem isn't that Mercedes, VW, and other big automakers don't have more horsepower in terms of dollars to spend on R&D than Tesla. To abuse the car analogy, it's a problem of momentum and power-to-weight ratios. Mercedes needs to do a complete 180 to become an electric car manufacturer. Employees with education and years of experience in internal combustion engines will fight their obsolescence. Plants and prod…
I would not call it a 180. Maybe more like a right turn, if even that much. All their sheet metal stamping (or carbon fiber fabrication), chassis-making, interior manufacturing, paint, as well as parts suppliers for all that, glass, brakes, tires, wheels, etc. can be directly used. They just need to change the drivetrain.
Their distribution, dealer network, marketing, etc. is in place world-wide and very well established.
Re: Mercedes Has the Horsepower for Tesla Battle
#5This does not bother me. Competition is good for the consumer.
Re: Mercedes Has the Horsepower for Tesla Battle
#6I don't think people realize just how much Musk is laughing at all this. He gave away many electric car patents because he knew he would profit from it so long as he has the best battery factory in the world. As it stands Tesla owns the building, the factory and rents some of it out to Panasonic.
Unless Mercedes finds a cheaper battery elsewhere they're going to be paying Tesla for these.
Re: Mercedes Has the Horsepower for Tesla Battle
#7The problem isn't that Mercedes, VW, and other big automakers don't have more horsepower in terms of dollars to spend on R&D than Tesla. To abuse the car analogy, it's a problem of momentum and power-to-weight ratios. Mercedes needs to do a complete 180 to become an electric car manufacturer. Employees with education and years of experience in internal combustion engines will fight their obsolescence. Plants and prod…
Seriously, as a Frenchman, if history has taught me ANYTHING about the Germans, it's that they're generally very apt at changing course, adapting and being ahead of the curve. They have that image of not being the most flexible but when it comes to technology and industry, they're pretty damn good and I think they'll make that transition just like they've made all the necessary transitions before.
Re: Mercedes Has the Horsepower for Tesla Battle
#8The problem isn't that Mercedes, VW, and other big automakers don't have more horsepower in terms of dollars to spend on R&D than Tesla. To abuse the car analogy, it's a problem of momentum and power-to-weight ratios. Mercedes needs to do a complete 180 to become an electric car manufacturer. Employees with education and years of experience in internal combustion engines will fight their obsolescence. Plants and prod…
That's a theory, but it's not sufficiently convincing to take on faith. There are a lot of different kind of expertise and capacity necessary to create a great car, from styling or marketing and sales, to interiors, seats, tires, and so on, that have nothing to do with the difference between a gas and electric means of powering the vehicle.
At a casual glance it appears that the real genuinely thorny problem with EV production is coming up with a workable battery system and producing it at scale. Which to be sure is challenging and Tesla has a head start, but it's still just a component in a much larger supply and production chain.
I'm not convinced an electric four door sedan is "more different" from a current gas four door sedan than a diesel cargo van is, and the company is adept at producing both of those. It's not obvious that figuring out how to make a reasonable electric car factory in Bavaria is more of a stretch for the company than building SUV's the American south.
These successful integrated car companies already adapt a lot as it is. The idea that they just don't have it in them to swap out a gas engine for some batteries and motors doesn't really match reality as far as I can tell.
Re: Mercedes Has the Horsepower for Tesla Battle
#9The problem isn't that Mercedes, VW, and other big automakers don't have more horsepower in terms of dollars to spend on R&D than Tesla. To abuse the car analogy, it's a problem of momentum and power-to-weight ratios. Mercedes needs to do a complete 180 to become an electric car manufacturer. Employees with education and years of experience in internal combustion engines will fight their obsolescence. Plants and prod…
Seriously, as a Frenchman, if history has taught me ANYTHING about the Germans, it's that they're generally very apt at changing course, adapting and being ahead of the curve. They have that image of not being the most flexible but when it comes to technology and industry, they're pretty damn good and I think they'll make that transition just like they've made all the necessary transitions before.
They're conservative, but that has nothing to do with technological flexibility. The problem here would be the decision itself, not the technological side.
Re: Mercedes Has the Horsepower for Tesla Battle
#10The problem isn't that Mercedes, VW, and other big automakers don't have more horsepower in terms of dollars to spend on R&D than Tesla. To abuse the car analogy, it's a problem of momentum and power-to-weight ratios. Mercedes needs to do a complete 180 to become an electric car manufacturer. Employees with education and years of experience in internal combustion engines will fight their obsolescence. Plants and prod…
> The problem isn't that Mercedes, VW, and other big automakers don't have more horsepower in terms of dollars to spend on R&D than Tesla.
Before Tesla, Mercedes is/was historically the manufacturer that spent the most amount of R&D.
> Employees with education and years of experience in internal combustion engines will fight their obsolescence.
Do you realize making a great car is not only just about the engine? Mercedes has the best engineers in the world regarding the other parts of the automobile - suspension, brakes, steering, reliability, safety, etc.