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Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

arstechnica.com

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Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#141

Post by dannyw »

mahyarm wrote: post #15
ianferrel wrote: post #4

In the February 2017 case of a California artist who was questioned at San Francisco International Airport upon re-entry, after he finally agreed to unlock his iPhone, it was taken out of his sight for several minutes and could have been imaged without his knowledge. Under iOS 11, unless the artist, Aaron Gach, decided to actually give up the passcode (rather than type it in himself), he could at least have been reas…

It does. But if your a US citizen or are ok to be barred from entering the US for a long time, then you have the option to not unlock. If you go the US citizen route, be prepared to never get your phone back and many future border crossings to be 4+hr affairs where they confiscate most of your things. As a US citizen they have to let you in.

If you do have money and effort to spare though, perhaps you can file a suit that gets up to the Supreme Court after enough of those 4hr border crossings.

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#142

Post by dannyw »

amckenna wrote: post #138
arkadiyt wrote: post #55

For anyone concerned that authorities force you to give up your password to them (thus allowing them to image your device), you can pair your iPhone to a computer with a MDM (managed device profile), which will prevent any other device from connecting to it. iOS security researcher (now Apple employee) Jonathan Zdziarski has 2 blog posts on this: Counter-Forensics: Pair-Lock Your Device with Apple’s Configurator: htt…

That's a great idea! Does anyone know if this technique works with iOS 10? The linked blogpost is for iOS 7 and 8

Yes, the underlying technique has not changed and works for iOS 11 (beta).

By the way, the writer of this post now works for Apple on their Security Architecture team.

I would not be surprised if this change came from him.

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#143

Post by userbinator »

Retric wrote: post #36
StavrosK wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is very true, but I find it very sad that, as much as Apple is pro-privacy, it's very anti-freedom. I'd love to switch to a device as private as an iPhone, but at this point you're just renting the device from them.

You can't run a mass maket open platform without security or privacy issues as Users will install things that cause problems.

...and IMHO those "security or privacy issues" are an acceptable cost of freedom, the same way that I see crime in general: no one wants to be a victim, but you can see that, as long as crime still exists, so does freedom. If no one can do "bad things", then everyone has already had the essence of life taken out of them. I wrote this comment a few months ago when (almost) everyone was wondering what could be done, in the wake of a massive malware attack:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14339031

More timely, the WTC attacks 16 years ago marked another notable event whereafter great freedom was lost in the name of safety.

As that old saying goes, "Those who sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither."

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#144

Post by kitsunesoba »

mikeash wrote: post #44
taormina wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But can ruin your privacy guarantees.

How? Sideloaded apps would still be sandboxed.

It's more than just sandboxing: Apps going through the App Store have to meet a stringent set of requirements, chiefly being no private API usage, no circumvention of features intended to give the user control/privacy, and no third party web engines (and all the performance and security implications that come with those). Apple regularly rejects apps that violate the first two, and while I'm sure some get through they tend to get buried by scores of more legitimate alternatives. Sideloaded apps get to bypass all of this.

If they ever do offer sideloading/gatekeeper, it should be turned off by default and turning it on should make the risks crystal clear with a scary alert and passcode prompt. Average folks should be heavily discouraged against using it. Gatekeeper works on the Mac, but iOS devices are both far more numerous and far more personal, so the stakes are much higher.

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#145

Post by KGIII »

Botnet4Lunch wrote: post #122
KGIII wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada forces people to unlock their phones, when crossing the border, quite frequently - and have for years. They will make you unlock it, or disallow entry and/or detain you. There's a whole series that shows this. It's Canadian Border Guard, or similar. I see it when I cross the border, which I do with some frequency. I just unlock my phone for them.

What do they do with it after you give it to them? Does the device leave your sight?

They just flip through it. I'm a citizen so they don't do much with it. They usually look at texts and emails, to see if people are going to work there illegally. I'm able to work there so it's pretty silly.

It has never left my sight. I can't speak for others and didn't watch the show that carefully. I live so close to the border that my neighbors get Canadian television. So, I've seen it there. I don't actually have TV hooked up, so I don't see it often.

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#146

Post by Prefinem »

honr wrote: post #140
Prefinem wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Fi only allows Their Nexus and Pixel phones on their network. It is like an ISP seeing that you are running Linux and not letting your traffic through, just a bit more complicated than that. (SIM Card, Modems, Frequencies)

This sounds a bit misguided. IIUC, Google Fi is really a mechanism of accessing two carriers from the same device. It consists of 1. A partnership between Google Fi (the cellular provider), T Mobile, and Sprint, and 2. A special radio hardware on the phone that is capable of working with two different "channels" at the same time. Since my Nexus device broke, I have personally been using "Google Fi" (the provider) on…

Sorry, I did not mean to say that is how it is but how it seemed. My understanding is that the modems aren’t capable. That being said, activation is done only with a nexus or pixel device (software) and while switching might be a hardware issue, iPhone works on both sprint and Tmobile (on an iPhone on Tmobile after moving from Verizon) and so google fi should still work.

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#147

Post by KGIII »

adekok wrote: post #129
KGIII wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada forces people to unlock their phones, when crossing the border, quite frequently - and have for years. They will make you unlock it, or disallow entry and/or detain you. There's a whole series that shows this. It's Canadian Border Guard, or similar. I see it when I cross the border, which I do with some frequency. I just unlock my phone for them.

As does the States. What I meant was that inside of Canada , there are situations where the police don't need a search warrant for your phone. You can unlock it with your fingerprint, so it's legally "open" and searchable. If you have a passphrase, then they need to know your mind in order to unlock it, and they can't force you to disclose something you know.

Ah, okay. Yes, inside the US it is pretty much the same. Borders are the exception and, I think, you need to actually be crossing in order for them to demand it. Citizens are immune, for the most part.

Curiously, citizens aren't immune in Canada. I have dual citizenship and they still sometimes want to flip through my phone. No, I'm not sure why. They have had me power on and unlock my laptop a couple of times, as well.

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#148

Post by abritinthebay »

paulddraper wrote: post #137
nemothekid wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is every other phone on the market.

No. There are open source Android phones. There are no open source ios phones

Yeah? The baseband and chip ROMs are open source? Really?

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#149

Post by kasey_junk »

boznz wrote: post #131
ReverseCold wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android = Google (No, aosp is unusable, and Google is working to make it more unusable). Google = no privacy Therefore, Android = no privacy Q.E.D

IOS = Closed Source, Therefore only their word there is no backdoor

This ignores essentially all reverse engineering techniques that are required to find actual backdoors & is not something security professionals largely believe.

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#150

Post by jgh »

StavrosK wrote: post #21
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #8

I have never seen a company both so technically capable and supportive of user privacy as Apple. It stands completely apart from all of the tech giants of today.

That is very true, but I find it very sad that, as much as Apple is pro-privacy, it's very anti-freedom. I'd love to switch to a device as private as an iPhone, but at this point you're just renting the device from them.

otoh the pro-privacy approach they're taking also increases freedom, such as in the use-case this article is about. Which imo is probably a more tangible freedom to many than the ability to hack around iOS devices or the idea that the app store isn't free.
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