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Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

arstechnica.com

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Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#61

Post by grzm »

dkonofalski wrote: post #54
grzm wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting and pragmatic. Do you have a reference for this? I'd be interested in reading more.

There is a reference for this as Apple published a security white-paper about it prior to the release of TouchID. Unfortunately, I'm not at a point where I can search for it. If I find the time today, I will update this post with a link.

Cheers. I'd appreciate it.

Edit to add: I came across this one:

https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf

It was linked from an article in 2014[1], though this PDF document is dated March 2017.

[1]: http://www.biometricupdate.com/201402/apple-publishes-whitep...

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#62

Post by muninn_ »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #42
dkonofalski wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not anti-freedom. It's just pro-ease-of-use and it's easier to guarantee a quality experience when there are less unknowns and less variables to account for. When everyone is using the same device with the same software, it's much easier to guarantee a great experience.

I see your point, but: That's not an excuse, that's an explanation. It is anti freedom whether that's their end game or not. I don't really care about Apples motives, I care about the product. Really, Apple is anti Nothing and pro only one thing: money. Everything else is a corollary. Including ease of use, freedom, and privacy. It's just that those things do matter to me (and GP).

What's an example of a common use case in which Apple is anti-freedom in your opinion?

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#63

Post by adventured »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #60
ReverseCold wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android = Google (No, aosp is unusable, and Google is working to make it more unusable). Google = no privacy Therefore, Android = no privacy Q.E.D

What data does Google collect that Apple doesn't collect? The only difference I can see is that Google is competent at making the data it collects useful to the user and barely usable to advertisers. Your comment looks like trolling. We were discussing a feature to prevent others from backing up your device.

In the first part, you're setting up a premise that nobody here can or will answer publicly even if they have the knowledge of the exact information collected by either company. That gives you a free run at the second part without anything supporting it.

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#64

Post by madeofpalk »

jsjohnst wrote: post #59
steve19 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing side loading of apps would not impact usability in anyway. Edit: It would massively increase the usability, allowing any apps to be installed, not just Apple approved apps, making the phone more usable to many people. Back in the day I had to buy a dev account just to load an emulator I wanted to use (it was open source) without rooting.

Technically, they do. You just have to pay more for it (aka buying a developer account).

Actually you don't even need to pay for it these days. Free Apple Developer accounts can side load apps through Xcode

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#65

Post by clamprecht »

thephyber wrote: post #17
ianferrel wrote: post #4

In the February 2017 case of a California artist who was questioned at San Francisco International Airport upon re-entry, after he finally agreed to unlock his iPhone, it was taken out of his sight for several minutes and could have been imaged without his knowledge. Under iOS 11, unless the artist, Aaron Gach, decided to actually give up the passcode (rather than type it in himself), he could at least have been reas…

As mentioned elsewhere, Apple can't prevent "rubber hose decryption" (where someone compels/coerces/tortures you to get access to an unlocked phone). I suspect this feature wasn't designed to prevent that threat. My guess is this somehow foils or mitigates the workaround that the Israeli company sold to the FBI after the San Bernadino phone issue.

They could add a "duress passcode", with an alternate reality of data. I don't expect them to, but it's possible. Bitcoin hardware wallets have this kind of feature to help avoid wrench attacks.

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#66

Post by madeofpalk »

Prefinem wrote: post #16
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #8

I have never seen a company both so technically capable and supportive of user privacy as Apple. It stands completely apart from all of the tech giants of today.

This is the only reason why I moved from Android to iOS even though I enjoy the Android phones and Google Fi more. I wish Google Fi would support iOS devices.

> I wish Google Fi would support iOS devices.

I'm curious - how can a carrier support and not support certain networks? Isn't that like saying I wish my ISP supported Linux?

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#67

Post by KGIII »

DigitalJack wrote: post #12
DanBC wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the worst case for rubber hose. Even if you give up all your passwords they can still keep beating you to get the "real" pass.

They should have an "erase everything" password.

If you are realistically in a situation where that would happen, and you would be harmed, they may just decide to kill you as you're no longer of any value.

In this case, a blank phone probably means no entry and not actually harming you. So, there's that, I guess.

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#68

Post by ricardobeat »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #60
ReverseCold wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android = Google (No, aosp is unusable, and Google is working to make it more unusable). Google = no privacy Therefore, Android = no privacy Q.E.D

What data does Google collect that Apple doesn't collect? The only difference I can see is that Google is competent at making the data it collects useful to the user and barely usable to advertisers. Your comment looks like trolling. We were discussing a feature to prevent others from backing up your device.

To answer your first question: a lot. Apple makes all your data locally encrypted by default, in Messages, Siri, iCloud, Maps, etc - they don't have the key to access it. See more at https://www.apple.com/lae/privacy/approach-to-privacy/

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#69

Post by KGIII »

adekok wrote: post #13
mtgx wrote: post #2

> These changes are coming in conjunction with another privacy-minded feature that will disable Touch ID by pressing the power button five times. Wow, that's really nice. I wish Google was so forward thinking about things like this. I see no reason why a fingerprint authentication should be forced upon someone anymore than a password unlock would be. The only reason this is how it works today is because it's much "ea…

> I see no reason why a fingerprint authentication should be forced upon someone anymore than a password unlock would be. In Canada, there is a difference. A fingerprint is something you have. A password is something you know. Police can compel you to use your fingerprint to unlock the phone. They can't compel you to disclose the password.

Canada forces people to unlock their phones, when crossing the border, quite frequently - and have for years. They will make you unlock it, or disallow entry and/or detain you.

There's a whole series that shows this. It's Canadian Border Guard, or similar. I see it when I cross the border, which I do with some frequency. I just unlock my phone for them.

Re: Under iOS 11, authorities won’t be able to image your device without a passcode

#70

Post by eridius »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #60
ReverseCold wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android = Google (No, aosp is unusable, and Google is working to make it more unusable). Google = no privacy Therefore, Android = no privacy Q.E.D

What data does Google collect that Apple doesn't collect? The only difference I can see is that Google is competent at making the data it collects useful to the user and barely usable to advertisers. Your comment looks like trolling. We were discussing a feature to prevent others from backing up your device.

> What data does Google collect that Apple doesn't collect?

I don't know what Google collects, but the simple answer to this is "virtually everything". Apple collects very little data from their users and does everything they possibly can on-device (and the stuff that requires the cloud is either encrypted or heavily anonymized). Nearly all data that Google collects, Apple doesn't.

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