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Friends Are Genetically Similar (2014)

nature.com

91–100 of 207 posts

Re: Friends Are Genetically Similar (2014)

#91
post #88
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Framingham is pretty much just like that, although it's less than 75% it's still a supermajority. https://datausa.io/profile/geo/framingham-ma/#demographics

Remember also that the dataset they are using began back in the 1940s when the towns demographics would have been much farther skewed towards English/Anglo-Saxon. And while they've included more participants over the course of the study, it's mainly been adding the descendants of the original participants.

Good points, but either way the go study is doubtful as hell.

Re: Friends Are Genetically Similar (2014)

#92

People need to realize we are built on hardware that is hundreds of millions of years old. We share a similar hormonal dominance hierarchy system with fucking lobsters. You can't just say it's and expect these things to disappear. Tribalism was important for survival, trusting someone who didn't look like you could mean death and thus was selected for over long periods of time.

Adultery and murder have happened in just about every human society in the history of time but nobody thinks we shouldn't bother trying to suppress those impulses.

[deleted]

Re: Friends Are Genetically Similar (2014)

#93
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adultery and murder have happened in just about every human society in the history of time but nobody thinks we shouldn't bother trying to suppress those impulses.

Most of us would agree with you, I think what OP is saying is that it's irrational to say things like "It's 2017, who murders people anymore!?". People still murder, but we should definitely continue to try suppress that behavior.

Usually a post like the OP's is a lead-in to an argument about why discrimination is actually fine and shouldn't be fought, so I guess I let my previous experiences get ahead of what the post actually says.

Re: Friends Are Genetically Similar (2014)

#94

People need to realize we are built on hardware that is hundreds of millions of years old. We share a similar hormonal dominance hierarchy system with fucking lobsters. You can't just say it's and expect these things to disappear. Tribalism was important for survival, trusting someone who didn't look like you could mean death and thus was selected for over long periods of time.

Adultery and murder have happened in just about every human society in the history of time but nobody thinks we shouldn't bother trying to suppress those impulses.

When murdering someone or cheating on your partner, you probably have a lot more time to second-guess your motives. When subconsciously judging a passer-by, you don't. In my case at least, they are long gone before I even realise that I've judged someone.

Re: Friends Are Genetically Similar (2014)

#95

People need to realize we are built on hardware that is hundreds of millions of years old. We share a similar hormonal dominance hierarchy system with fucking lobsters. You can't just say it's and expect these things to disappear. Tribalism was important for survival, trusting someone who didn't look like you could mean death and thus was selected for over long periods of time.

>...trusting someone who didn't look like you could mean death...

If you read the article, it's actually not at all about people looking the same.

In the study, people had friends with similar smell genetics, and different immunity system genetics.

Re: Friends Are Genetically Similar (2014)

#96
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you choose friends who share values with you, "tribes" will naturally self segregate based on those values. Is that really so bad?

I, uh, do not see what that has to do with your friends being genetically similar.

We aren't blank slates. Genes inform a lot about who we are.

Re: Friends Are Genetically Similar (2014)

#97
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, uh, do not see what that has to do with your friends being genetically similar.

We aren't blank slates. Genes inform a lot about who we are.

That vague truism doesn't seem like enough to justify racially- or otherwise genetically-based separatism to me.

Re: Friends Are Genetically Similar (2014)

#98

People need to realize we are built on hardware that is hundreds of millions of years old. We share a similar hormonal dominance hierarchy system with fucking lobsters. You can't just say it's and expect these things to disappear. Tribalism was important for survival, trusting someone who didn't look like you could mean death and thus was selected for over long periods of time.

Adultery and murder have happened in just about every human society in the history of time but nobody thinks we shouldn't bother trying to suppress those impulses.

I don't think you could ever make an argument that murder is good, but tribes have their benefits. For example, we know that homogenous societies have less conflict, a greater sense of community, and higher social trust.

Re: Friends Are Genetically Similar (2014)

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more nuanced than that though. The question is where to draw the line about which behaviors are bad and which ones aren't. Things like murder are obviously bad in most cases and should be suppressed, but social structures are not so clear cut. If there aren't any clear consequences to a instinctual behavior then it's probably better to not suppress it.

There are lots of clear consequences to "tribalist" behavior, especially if we mean the obvious example of racism.

there are countless facets to tribalism, and racism doesn't have to be one of them. But in any case my point is more general in nature and not about tribalism.

Re: Friends Are Genetically Similar (2014)

#100

People need to realize we are built on hardware that is hundreds of millions of years old. We share a similar hormonal dominance hierarchy system with fucking lobsters. You can't just say it's and expect these things to disappear. Tribalism was important for survival, trusting someone who didn't look like you could mean death and thus was selected for over long periods of time.

You've confused kin selection with kin discrimination. The idea "because friends are genetically similar, an individual with the opposite genotype at a specific allele poses a bigger threat to your survival/fitness than someone with the same genotype at that allele."

Additionally:

> formal analysis has shown that selection for group adaptations requires special circumstances, with negligible within group selection (Fig. 4), such as when (a) the group is composed of genetically identical individuals (clonal groups, r=1), or (b) there is complete repression of competition between groups (i.e., no conflict within groups; Gardner & Grafen, 2009). It is useful here to distinguish adaptation and design from dynamics of how selection leads to design. The dynamics of selection can be examined with either an individual (inclusive fitness or kin selection) or group selection approach. However, only the individual level approach provides a general model of adaptation. The idea that individuals strive to maximise their inclusive fitness holds irrespective of the intensity of selection operating within and between groups (Section 2; Fig. 4). In contrast, as discussed above, group adaptations or maximization of fitness at the group level are only expected in the extreme case where there is no within group selection.

I really doubt your view is consistent with the conditions for selection in the group. If non-tribe-member competition caused significant competition between groups, then it far outweighs the pressure of in-group adaptation. If "friends are genetically similar" is a genetic adaptation from tribalism, then it has to be an enhancement from within the group when it lacks competition - you benefit from the adaptation relative to people within your tribe that don't have it. FYI the paper disagrees with the notion that friend similarity is likely a result of decision.

Personally I think that 1% relative similarity could easily be explained in the ambiguous language they use to explain why it was "mostly" homogenously European - why would it surprise me that the non-Europeans would tend to have less DNA in common with the friends they have while also likely having fewer friends per capita?

Though, possibly, because the most likely to be similar SNPs were related to smell (and therefore taste), and to linoleic acid, maybe it reaffirms that people who break you bread are your companions - and that there is a real difference between butter cultures and olive oil cultures :P

[0] https://www.zoo.ox.ac.uk/group/west/pdf/WestElMoudenGardner_...

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