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Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans

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Re: Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans

#11
Coincidently I've been reading and youtubing about human evolution recently. If anyone's interested here are some bullet point facts that may surprise other laymen.

* In the last few years the Out Of Africa theory (modern humans originated solely in Africa) has received stiff competition from the Multi Regional theory. Namely that waves of human species have left Africa since we diverged from chimpanzees 4 million years ago and that our ancestors are from all the homo-inhabited regions of the world to a greater or lesser extent.

* Neanderthals and Denisovans are 2 known species that certainly inhabited much of the world (apart from the Americas) from around 2/300,000 to 50,000 years ago.

* We certainly bred with Neanderthals and Denisovans, some of us contain up to 4% of their DNA.

* Mammals generally take about 5 million years before they evolve far enough to be reproductively isolated. Of course before then there can still be breeding problems, for which there is evidence of in our breeding with the aforementioned.

* DNA from human skeletons several hunreds of thousands of years old can still be analysed.

* Mitochondrial DNA is passed by mothers only and so undergoes very little mutation. So it provides a stable and valuable signature for detecting ancient affinities between species/sub-species.

* By analysing the variation within genes certain characteristics can be interpreted like population size (eg; there were very few Denisovans) and that there are as yet unidentified species that humans have inherited from.

* Neanderthals possessed the FOXP2 gene known to be central in human speech.

* One of the oldest known oral traditions has evidence to verify a story from around 30,000 years ago: that Australian aboriginees brought the palm tree seeds with them from the north. See: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-03/aboriginal-legend-palm...

Forgive any errors in this amateur homework report.

Re: Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans

#12
post #11

Coincidently I've been reading and youtubing about human evolution recently. If anyone's interested here are some bullet point facts that may surprise other laymen. * In the last few years the Out Of Africa theory (modern humans originated solely in Africa) has received stiff competition from the Multi Regional theory. Namely that waves of human species have left Africa since we diverged from chimpanzees 4 million ye…

Wow. That last bullet point is particularly remarkable to me - both the implied level of 'technological understanding' and presumed foreplanning for significant journeys 30K years back and for the capacity of oral history to record what come today might not be the most pertinent information.

Also quite amusing in the context of contemporary Australia's philosophy where alien plants and animals are concerned! :)

Re: Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans

#13
post #11

Coincidently I've been reading and youtubing about human evolution recently. If anyone's interested here are some bullet point facts that may surprise other laymen. * In the last few years the Out Of Africa theory (modern humans originated solely in Africa) has received stiff competition from the Multi Regional theory. Namely that waves of human species have left Africa since we diverged from chimpanzees 4 million ye…

Wow. That last bullet point is particularly remarkable to me - both the implied level of 'technological understanding' and presumed foreplanning for significant journeys 30K years back and for the capacity of oral history to record what come today might not be the most pertinent information. Also quite amusing in the context of contemporary Australia's philosophy where alien plants and animals are concerned! :)

Citing that article:

> “It suggests that Aboriginal oral traditions may have endured for up to 30,000 years, and lends further weight to the idea that some Aboriginal myths pertaining to gigantic animals may be authentic records of extinct megafauna”

Wow ^ 2

Re: Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans

#14
post #11

Coincidently I've been reading and youtubing about human evolution recently. If anyone's interested here are some bullet point facts that may surprise other laymen. * In the last few years the Out Of Africa theory (modern humans originated solely in Africa) has received stiff competition from the Multi Regional theory. Namely that waves of human species have left Africa since we diverged from chimpanzees 4 million ye…

Minor correction - I think the chimp divergence was longer ago - Wikipedia: While "original divergence" between populations may have occurred as early as 13 million years ago (Miocene), hybridization may have been ongoing until as recent as 4 million years ago

Re: Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans

#15
post #14
post #11

Coincidently I've been reading and youtubing about human evolution recently. If anyone's interested here are some bullet point facts that may surprise other laymen. * In the last few years the Out Of Africa theory (modern humans originated solely in Africa) has received stiff competition from the Multi Regional theory. Namely that waves of human species have left Africa since we diverged from chimpanzees 4 million ye…

Minor correction - I think the chimp divergence was longer ago - Wikipedia: While "original divergence" between populations may have occurred as early as 13 million years ago (Miocene), hybridization may have been ongoing until as recent as 4 million years ago

updated, thanks

Re: Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans

#16

I've never really grasped where the surprise comes from with these kinds of discoveries - we know that our ancestry always had the potential to give rise to lines that look very much like us, since we look very much like us. Why should it be a surprise if it happened more than once? We're looking at a terribly long timescale, after all - at least by comparison to our recorded history.

Evolution is not linear. At each step there are multiple choices. If you split a population, each one will have different problems in it's environment to solve or they may "find" different solutions to the same problems.

After some time the changes in the ADN make the two population incompatible for reproduction, so they become different species. [An easy case is when the number of chromosomes changes in one of the part but it doesn't change in the others. But more subtle changes are more frequent.]

Re: Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans

#17
post #11

Coincidently I've been reading and youtubing about human evolution recently. If anyone's interested here are some bullet point facts that may surprise other laymen. * In the last few years the Out Of Africa theory (modern humans originated solely in Africa) has received stiff competition from the Multi Regional theory. Namely that waves of human species have left Africa since we diverged from chimpanzees 4 million ye…

Wow. That last bullet point is particularly remarkable to me - both the implied level of 'technological understanding' and presumed foreplanning for significant journeys 30K years back and for the capacity of oral history to record what come today might not be the most pertinent information. Also quite amusing in the context of contemporary Australia's philosophy where alien plants and animals are concerned! :)

On a similar timescale, lots of cultures from the middle east have a flood myth, which is thought to be a real event from about 15k years ago.

Re: Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans

#19
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. That last bullet point is particularly remarkable to me - both the implied level of 'technological understanding' and presumed foreplanning for significant journeys 30K years back and for the capacity of oral history to record what come today might not be the most pertinent information. Also quite amusing in the context of contemporary Australia's philosophy where alien plants and animals are concerned! :)

On a similar timescale, lots of cultures from the middle east have a flood myth, which is thought to be a real event from about 15k years ago.

I'm sorry, but that statement is very likely incorrect. 15kya was very soon after the last glacial maximum (24-18kya) and sea levels weren't significantly affected by then. The receding of the ice sheets started at cca 18kya, but was going slowly at first and only accelerated after 15kya.

Most of middle east cultures draw the myth from Mesopotamian cultures, whose flood myth most likely refers to the flooding of the Persian gulf (which Eufrat and Tigris drain to currently, but used to be a fertile lowland with multiple rivers) cca 8kya.

https://www.livescience.com/10340-lost-civilization-existed-...

Considering the map in this article, with abundance of rivers across the whole Persian gulf plain, I would suggest that the myth of exile from Eden is also related to it - after the flooding and subsequent move of people upriver between the Eufrat and Tigris there was a need to create irrigation channels to keep the agricultural production up at necessary levels. Creating and maintaining these channels is hard, back-breaking work, and it might have inspired the famous 'By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food' line.

Re: Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans

#20
post #11

Coincidently I've been reading and youtubing about human evolution recently. If anyone's interested here are some bullet point facts that may surprise other laymen. * In the last few years the Out Of Africa theory (modern humans originated solely in Africa) has received stiff competition from the Multi Regional theory. Namely that waves of human species have left Africa since we diverged from chimpanzees 4 million ye…

Very interesting! I'm not sure I agree with your reasoning for the mitochondrial mutation point:

    > * Mitochondrial DNA is passed by mothers only and so undergoes very little mutation
It's true that mothers pass on mitochondrial DNA but this doesn't necessarily require the absence of mitochondrial DNA mutations. I would imagine the lower rates of DNA mutation are due to the importance of the mitochondrial genome for generating a cell's energy.
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