Live data from Hacker News

MIT’s Senior House dormitory closes, and a crisis blooms at colleges

wired.com

31–40 of 222 posts

Re: MIT’s Senior House dormitory closes, and a crisis blooms at colleges

#31

I wonder if there'll ever be another Steve Jobs or RMS. I wonder if we've destroyed all the places where brilliant weirdos can thrive and closed off all the paths to success other than a handful of narrowly prescribed routes. I wonder how many of the greatest minds of our generation are flipping burgers or making coffee.

SJ didn't go to a big university but do I fear for MIT/Stanford type schools.

To get in now you need to be a robot who can ace standardized tests, who spends their whole childhood doing math problems and has no real contact with the real world aside from two pieces of flair suggested by a guidance counseller in order to get into an ivy.

Re: MIT’s Senior House dormitory closes, and a crisis blooms at colleges

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so sad. I found the quote "one way to destroy a culture, with lots of white paint" very poignant. Institutions everywhere increasingly seem to want to just make everything bland and safe.

> Institutions everywhere increasingly seem to want to just make everything bland and safe. Can you really blame them when the alternative is college campuses burning because they invited a speaker who was committing wrongthing and wrongspeak? This is something that has been demanded by a growing percentage of the student body over the last two decades. The schools are giving the students what they want. I wouldn't b…

Yes, this is clearly a reaction to political correctness, which is why they got rid of housing for the ~privileged~ straight white men and--oh, what? This was traditional housing for exactly the sort of queer people, minorities, and lower-income students who get blamed for hating "speakers who commit wrongthink"? While protests that don't do much are referred to as "burning campus," the people actually hurt by real actions are just the people all those dang SJWs keep saying are being hurt? Weird.

Re: MIT’s Senior House dormitory closes, and a crisis blooms at colleges

#34
post #26

As a Senior House alum and former instructor at MIT, what bothers me the most is how MIT is teaching horrible standards of ethical behavior through their actions. Improper use of metadata to track down individuals in a confidential survey about mental health and substance abuse would end a scientist's career. MIT did it. Collective punishment of a group for the actions of a few is an educational and social antipatter…

I'm not sure how I feel about Senior House overall, but the misuse of the survey data enraged me. We have such a hard time getting people at MIT to seek help for mental health issues and stupid bullshit like this is exactly why. People should not he punished for trying to seek help, health data should never be shared with people who are not health care professionals, and it's astoundingly unethical to use people's health care data or metadata to run studies without their explicit consent.

Re: MIT’s Senior House dormitory closes, and a crisis blooms at colleges

#35

I wonder if there'll ever be another Steve Jobs or RMS. I wonder if we've destroyed all the places where brilliant weirdos can thrive and closed off all the paths to success other than a handful of narrowly prescribed routes. I wonder how many of the greatest minds of our generation are flipping burgers or making coffee.

20+ years ago I had this conversation with a senior mentor, who was bemoaning that I was the only young person he had met in the last few years who seemed to "get it". That every college student was taking underwater basketweaving or "management information science", which meant COBOL and flowcharts.

Survivorship bias is real. Things sneak up on you when you aren't looking. Linux had only just made it into the 1.2 kernel series.

Re: MIT’s Senior House dormitory closes, and a crisis blooms at colleges

#36
post #6

I think the trend at MIT is not just about dorms. It's about groups that are too independent, too strong-willed, or just too different getting hammered down or spit out, in favor of corporate-friendly programs and people that are more willing to toe the administration's line and/or promote its designated priorities. The quirky but long-lived program I took part in recently had its leader of 10+ years dismissed, with…

[deleted]

Re: MIT’s Senior House dormitory closes, and a crisis blooms at colleges

#37

I wonder if there'll ever be another Steve Jobs or RMS. I wonder if we've destroyed all the places where brilliant weirdos can thrive and closed off all the paths to success other than a handful of narrowly prescribed routes. I wonder how many of the greatest minds of our generation are flipping burgers or making coffee.

Hey, Administrators need to feel like they're doing something .

Basically like Politicians, have to be seen doing something, even if it's completely useless or gets reversed soon after.

Otherwise why have so many Administrators, or need to hire more Administrators if there is not enough to do?

Re: MIT’s Senior House dormitory closes, and a crisis blooms at colleges

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about this particular dorm, it's about a broader social trend towards greater conformity and fewer second chances. Woz and Jobs started out in business selling blue boxes to illegal bookmakers. Imagine a world in which they had been subject to the modern surveillance panopticon and the sort of prosecutorial malice that was levelled against Aaron Swartz. RMS slept under his desk in the AI lab for many years a…

> How many opportunities are there today for someone with a 2.65 GPA? Just as many as there used to be, it's just never been easy. Actually I thought about it some more, and there are actually probably more opportunities today than before with the internet and the democratization of knowledge. > Woz and Jobs started out in business selling blue boxes to illegal bookmakers. > Imagine a world in which they had been sub…

> I think you're looking at it wrong...

You're completely missing GPs point, which is specifically about politics. Talking about an "interesting SaSS" is a red herring.

Re: MIT’s Senior House dormitory closes, and a crisis blooms at colleges

#39

>> Registrar data showed that the hall’s graduation rate was lower than any dorm on campus—21.1 percent of Senior House students were failing to graduate, versus the campus average of 7.7 percent. In addition, the email cited data that suggested higher-than-average drug use in the house. So perhaps these kinds of people have a lower graduation rate. By spreading them around campus, they will probably be less happy. S…

It'll diffuse the negative effect throughout so it won't be visible to MIT detractors. The happiness is likely inconsequential.

I speak strongly and pessimistically about this because of some very fresh in my mind experiences from my university, where I watched drug abuse (and some far more heinous acts) be covered up and untreated as long as they could be by staff, and then pushed under the rug after kicking out the students who likely could have been helped earlier with tactful interventions (of which dissolving the house/support structure in OP certainly is not). The incentives at many universities are heavily misaligned to what I believe we'd like them to be.

[Edit] As a postscript; I'd add in a ramble, as there's another thought weighing on me: (as there seem to be two stories here, "are we properly helping students" and "what's happening to the heterogeneity of universities")

My own undergrad would have been remarkably less positive if I didn't have my own groups of "outsiders" to associate with, whom I'll openly admit likely correlated with increased drug use, dropout rates, and lower GPAs, as a side effect of being composed of students who might have different priority systems, not as some corrupting effect. Without these groups I likely wouldn't have landed a majority of my professional-life jobs, I wouldn't have shared in a vast amount of their knowledge and experience, and I would have lost both many good friends, and likely my wife. In the decade since then, I've seen a "real world" in which I've been told to my face, "we avoid hiring nonconformists". And while I can understand the "business justification" for that, and the university changes, I have some fear for what will be lost resulting from a push to dissolve these pockets.

Re: MIT’s Senior House dormitory closes, and a crisis blooms at colleges

#40

> five minutes later they started emailing our parents—and > then all undergraduate parents Can somebody explain why the University would email the parents? What do they have to do with it? The students are of age, right?

The parents are paying the bills.

That's between us and our kids. At Illinois orientation this year, they were super clear with us: your kids are 18, adults, and they're our clients, not you; if you call us with questions about them, we're unlikely to answer them, and in some cases legally can't.

That felt right.

My kid's college calling me about other people's behavior in a dorm? That feels very, very wrong.

Post reply on HN