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With a $1k Price, Apple’s iPhone Crosses a Threshold

nytimes.com

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Re: With a $1k Price, Apple’s iPhone Crosses a Threshold

#191

Post by steevdave »

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #120
dannysu wrote: post #18

Nobody looks at a top of the line PC with the best graphics card(s) and say it's crossing a threshold. Everybody understands it's for a certain demographic. According to rumors, they're still going to have various models and price points. Also, iPhones are extremely economical because no other phones receive OS updates for as long. My iPhone 6, which cost $749 at the time, is coming up to 3 years old. It's still flaw…

So your last generation iPhone still gets updates? I would not call that a excellent benchmark in my book. The trouble with iOS devices is that they stop being usable the moment you can no longer update the OS in the way that most applications only support the newest OS (happened to several iPads here with e.g. Amazon app, Twitter, Youtube) - because updates roll out to the majority of users so fast compared to Andro…

It takes only one slip up to screw your security. One targeted attack that you don't notice because you're in a rush.

I love my MotoX 2013, but it never got updates (Sprint model, Sprint blamed Motorola, Motorola blamed Sprint); it's succeptible to Stagefright so I can't use it anymore. And it will never receive an update for it.

As much as we use our phones and as much personal information is on them, security updates should be first and foremost.

Yes, AOSP exists for some devices, but 9 times out of 10, something breaks when using it.

When Android moves to a new way of doing audio or video, drivers stop working, and some people try to come up with shims, but as others point out. The developer of it gets a new phone and the project dies.

My Nexus 5 (November 2013) hasn't gotten a security update since October 2016. My iPhone 5 (September 2012) just got an update to 10.3.3 in July.

Android devices are notorious for being slow to get updates, if you ever get them at all.

Yeah it can be cheaper to get an Android device, and I have quite a few, but they simply aren't up to the same standards that iPhones are.

Re: With a $1k Price, Apple’s iPhone Crosses a Threshold

#192

Post by dijit »

fehrm wrote: post #176
dannysu wrote: post #18

Nobody looks at a top of the line PC with the best graphics card(s) and say it's crossing a threshold. Everybody understands it's for a certain demographic. According to rumors, they're still going to have various models and price points. Also, iPhones are extremely economical because no other phones receive OS updates for as long. My iPhone 6, which cost $749 at the time, is coming up to 3 years old. It's still flaw…

You must be from the valley if you think that a 1000 phone is economical. That is laughable.

It's a defensible position, I live in the EU so proximity to heaps of expendable income is not as abundant than in the US middle-class. In the UK we had a saying "the poor man pays twice", meaning that if you buy a shitty rake and it breaks you have to go buy a new one.

This is kinda the case with phones too, you can buy a $450 phone with 2 years of updates, or a $700 with 5 years.

Which one is more economical over time?

Re: With a $1k Price, Apple’s iPhone Crosses a Threshold

#193

Post by photojosh »

cm2187 wrote: post #179
Razengan wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah but there was a big jump in performance / new features between early iphone generations. Nowadays the difference is really marginal for every day use. You can say the exact same for PCs, which could have stopped getting any performance improvements about 5 years ago and the general populace wouldn’t have complained at all.

And you can see the effect on sales. The only reason to replace a laptop these days is if you spill some coffee on it.

Yup. I'm still happy with my 2013 15" MBP, and my wife just down-graded to a more portable 12" MB.

Re: With a $1k Price, Apple’s iPhone Crosses a Threshold

#194

Post by simonh »

Yetanfou wrote: post #30
dannysu wrote: post #18

Nobody looks at a top of the line PC with the best graphics card(s) and say it's crossing a threshold. Everybody understands it's for a certain demographic. According to rumors, they're still going to have various models and price points. Also, iPhones are extremely economical because no other phones receive OS updates for as long. My iPhone 6, which cost $749 at the time, is coming up to 3 years old. It's still flaw…

I see your 3 year young iPhone and raise my 6 year old Motorola Defy. I bought it new in 2011 for about 1/4 of what the then-current iPhone would have cost. It still works flawlessly, the battery is fine as well (~5 days of normal use on a single charge or ~7 hours of screen time). If the battery were to fail I could just replace it, no tools required. Oh, the thing is waterproof and 'shock-proof' (although the latte…

My daughter was still using my 2010 iPhone 3GS until last December. It even still worked with the App Store. I'd dig it out and fire it up again but I'm not sure where it is.

All my iPhones get handed down. The only one out of (er, 5 devices I think?) that's properly busted is my other daughter's 4s. It started falling apart at the seams this summer and is currently held together with sliced strips of sticky tape. Still, it's lasted 5 years and was still getting OS updates last year!

The ting with OS updates is, it was supposed to be the other way around. We were told that being open source meant Android phones could never be abandoned like this. Owners would have the freedom to update the OS themselves and would truly own their device and it's software. There's no way a proprietary OS vendor would provide long terms support because it would be uneconomical and deter upgrades to new devices. What an utter crock of shit! What went wrong?

Re: With a $1k Price, Apple’s iPhone Crosses a Threshold

#195

Post by ghostDancer »

dannysu wrote: post #51
Yetanfou wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your 3 year young iPhone and raise my 6 year old Motorola Defy. I bought it new in 2011 for about 1/4 of what the then-current iPhone would have cost. It still works flawlessly, the battery is fine as well (~5 days of normal use on a single charge or ~7 hours of screen time). If the battery were to fail I could just replace it, no tools required. Oh, the thing is waterproof and 'shock-proof' (although the latte…

That misses a key point I was making: OS updates. Yes, I too have a Nexus 4 (bought in 2012) and it still works fine. But no more updates. I don't consider that on par with say my previous work laptop, which was also 3 years before I upgraded. I also own a Moto E (2nd Gen, $60-ish) and bought a Moto G+ for my brother this year, but I can't count on them to receive OS updates for as long.

You can install LineageOS and get some updates , don't know how long but you get to extend the life of both phones.

Re: With a $1k Price, Apple’s iPhone Crosses a Threshold

#196

Post by saagarjha »

StudentStuff wrote: post #155
saagarjha wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 98% of the same performance and features You’re talking about phones with hardware from half a decade ago. How exactly are you getting the same performance and features, let alone even support or updates from manufacturers?

In what world is a chip from 2014 a half decade old? Most of the phones in that price bracket will be using a Snapdragon 410 or similar.

Hmm…it looks like the Note 3 is actually only 4 years old.

Re: With a $1k Price, Apple’s iPhone Crosses a Threshold

#197

Post by erikb »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #115
erikb wrote: post #111

You may think this price is ridiculous, but iPhones are slowly dying for two to four generaltions already. The only people still on iPhone are the ones who consider it too hard to switch to Android (low IT skills), or the ones who feel some fan-like loyalty. The price matches that perfectly, exploiting the weak and stupid. PS: Why do I call fans stupid? The company isn't 1% as loyal to you as you are to them. If you…

> iPhones are slowly dying for two to four generaltions already I know it might be nice to believe that if you're a die-hard Android fan, but this is frankly nonsense. iOS is as popular as it ever was.

Really good argument. Thanks for not totally dropping the idea of a reasonable discussion, just because someone said "God is dead", ehm, I mean "iPhone is bad".

Actually I believe there will be another popularity spike and Apple will be a profitable company for another 20 years. But that doesn't mean iPhone's not dying. If you are that big, you can have both together.

Personal theory of mine, based on watching th tech market for 10 years (no claim to being an expert):

You are growing if you are funded and have great ideas that you can validate to be the top of the game. This is what the first iPhone and iPod did.

You are the constant leader when you provide top notch quality for a high but affordable price. That's what the Macbook does. Without an iPod like great idea you won't be able to beat that market leadership. They shouldn't expect growth with that product line, but they are really save.

And then there are losers. They may be anywhere in the market, based on previous successes and failures, but they are objectively worse than the competition and more expensive for about the same quality. This is where the iPhone stands. It lacks engineering wise so badly, it's not possible to overcome the hurdles without a complete rewrite. But the market is satisfied already. A complete rewrite is a high risk to stay on top in a stagnating market. Not worth it. The better strategy is to drain engineering costs and instead focus on marketing completely. That's what you can see with the iPhone happening. Each generation is worse than the previous, and mostly the hype and ownership-prestige is what keeps people coming back again and again. Putting money from engineering into marketing/sales will actually boost your profits for some time.

But marketing alone can't keep you on top forever. At some point the difference between fantasy and actual product will be so big that most people can't avoid the truth anymore. Then you will become the next Nokia.

Btw. I think Apple as a company still has a lot of opportunities. But the iPhone branch is dying. Hope I could explain why and why I believe that we will even see popularity rise in the next few years. Still engineering savy people have already switched away from iPhone. 100% sure about that part. For business reasons I needed to buy an ipHone 6s, and for powerusers it's a pain in the A, with no technical chance to make up the difference.

Re: With a $1k Price, Apple’s iPhone Crosses a Threshold

#198

Post by simonh »

Yetanfou wrote: post #30
dannysu wrote: post #18

Nobody looks at a top of the line PC with the best graphics card(s) and say it's crossing a threshold. Everybody understands it's for a certain demographic. According to rumors, they're still going to have various models and price points. Also, iPhones are extremely economical because no other phones receive OS updates for as long. My iPhone 6, which cost $749 at the time, is coming up to 3 years old. It's still flaw…

I see your 3 year young iPhone and raise my 6 year old Motorola Defy. I bought it new in 2011 for about 1/4 of what the then-current iPhone would have cost. It still works flawlessly, the battery is fine as well (~5 days of normal use on a single charge or ~7 hours of screen time). If the battery were to fail I could just replace it, no tools required. Oh, the thing is waterproof and 'shock-proof' (although the latte…

My daughter was still using my 2010 iPhone 3GS until last December. It even still worked with the App Store. I'd dig it out and fire it up again but I'm not sure where it is. I ran out of family members to had it down to.

All my iPhones get handed down. The only one out of (er, 5 devices I think?) that's properly busted is my other daughter's 4s. It started falling apart at the seams this summer and is currently held together with sliced strips of sticky tape. Still, it's lasted 5 years and was still getting OS updates last year!

The thing with OS updates is, it was supposed to be the other way around. We were told that being open source meant Android phones could never be abandoned like this. Owners would have the freedom to update the OS themselves and would truly own their device and it's software. There's no way a proprietary OS vendor would provide long terms support because it would be uneconomical and deter upgrades to new devices, but with Android that wouldn't matter.

What an utter crock of shit that turned out to be! What went wrong? How can Android fans that bought that line not be storming the gates of the vendors and Google that sold them these lies for being deceived and betrayed? But no, it's all about the new Samsung (factory worker poisoning, embezzling CEO, explodaphone coverup) shiny. Just roll over and be grateful for your new dose of utopian Android open source goodness, the best possible phones in the best of all possible open source worlds.

Un-effing-believable.

Re: With a $1k Price, Apple’s iPhone Crosses a Threshold

#199

Post by saagarjha »

jcelerier wrote: post #186
saagarjha wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 98% of the same performance and features You’re talking about phones with hardware from half a decade ago. How exactly are you getting the same performance and features, let alone even support or updates from manufacturers?

Got a five years old Jolla which still receives updates every other month

My criticism was mainly aimed at Android, which has a tendency to drop support for devices within 1-2 years.

Re: With a $1k Price, Apple’s iPhone Crosses a Threshold

#200

Post by yladiz »

mtgx wrote: post #75
bluthru wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If anything there is a regression with the absence of TouchID. FaceID fulfills that role.

All face authentication schemes are a joke and can be broken soon after release. Fingerprint auth can be broken, too, but it's orders of magnitude more difficult to "clone" someone's fingerprint than it is to copy one of their pictures from the internet, or from a CCTV camera, etc. Even if the system uses infrared or 3D images or whatever, it's just a matter of developing an advanced enough algorithm to deal with tha…

If someone is going to 3D print your face, they're determined enough to get into your phone regardless.
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