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Give away your code, but never your time

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Re: Give away your code, but never your time

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This smells like a small-minded startup-bubble nonsense to me. If you have time to use open source software, you should make time to also submit fixes and open some of your work. That’s not to say startups don’t contribute, but my experience is that a lot of startups—usually led by inexperienced managers—see contribution as giving something for free instead of charging. Small-minded nonsense indeed.

Lots of companies use open source code but don't actually require any changes to be made. A lot of industry standard open source software requires no code modification of the source for the vast majority of applications. Examples being Nginx, Python, Apache Web Server, Tomcat, pretty much any enterprise level application. So many people use it that for the 99%, the code already exists, with 99% of the use cases being…

All good. But then, the same people could contribute code non-pertinent to their product as open source. As someone else said in a comment here, you can always find what to open source. There is really no excuse.

Re: Give away your code, but never your time

#35

I always wonder where coders find the time to significantly contribute to Opensouce projects - which many seem to do - after their day job, having played and eaten with their kids, and were an attentful husband.

My company's platform is built on open source tech, a lot of which isn't mature yet, so we end up fixing bugs and adding features to it at our day job. Upstreaming them to the community is another story, and even when the code is finished and tested, things like backwards compatibility on old versions of the package and running on platforms you don't use can be a bear to support. It's definitely time consuming even when you can do the development at work.

My experience on other open source projects has also been when you put the work in to open a relevant PR and the maintainers just never respond to it. That's definitely frustrating.

Re: Give away your code, but never your time

#36
Glad to see other ideas and operating models being proposed and tried.

Most of us live in countries where you need money to pay rent and buy food. Unless you're already wealthy, that means you need to work (trade time for money) or find a way to trade time for an ownership stake that will, you hope, generate income (and in the process that stake becomes itself more valuable).

A buddy of mine in a maintainer for a popular Drupal module. A very large, well known, social media platform uses it. One day he got an email from someone - likely someone making $150-$200k- more or less demanding that he review and accept some PRs, as well as do some work himself, for a feature they needed.

I told this friend "Ok, did you ask them about their budget to pay you for that?" My friend, more idealistic than me, looked at me like I had 3 heads at first. But he got my question. Nonetheless he decided to "honor" their request and proceeded to work several weeks unexpectedly - for free - so the large for-profit company could stick with its plan and the person requesting this, who is paid, could meet her/his commitment to their boss. His rationale was afraid he'd criticized by the community for not dropping his paid work (!) to do this, since he was the maintainer. He did not want to be a "sell out". I think his decision was insane but such is the pressure to stay true to the ideals.

These stories are all to common and similar to what Willian describes.

I do work around expanding computer science in schools. I do work around mobilizing tech communities to lend their tech skills to disaster relief. A lot of folks in the "startup tech" and open sources communities (different communities with overlap) do the same -- I'm seeing them show up in big numbers for Irma volunteering right now for example. I view these efforts as akin to open course - they are contributions people make of their (unpaid) time to the greater good.

The big tech companies by contrast, many who got their start using open source software and many of whom still power much of their systems with it, could do much much much more on any number of fronts - CS in schools, supporting civic hacking, etc - than they do now. I am sure folks within those companies think they do a lot, but it's not, in my opinion, 5% of what they could do.

And when they do get involved in causes they make huge, often unreasonable expectations of unpaid volunteers in order to minimize their donation, whether that's a donation in time or money. (Case in point: last year a large tech company that provides search and email services asked me to organize Hour of Code events at 30-40 schools around NYC at which their staff to volunteer for an hour or two -- planning and logistics work that would have taken me 1-2 days a week for 4-6 weeks at least. They balked at the idea of paying me for my time since this was a "cause" and I should do it for free, though of course the people who would have been working on this project with me from said company would have been paid.) Sound similar? Expect a ton from volunteers to minimize your own investment.

I bring this up because the LEAST that people who work on open source projects - at least those who aren't pulling in $300K at one of the big tech companies - and ESPECIALLY maintainers, should expect is to get paid somehow. Seriously, how are people supposed to pay rent? William is right on with his piece.

Ideals are great but people need to eat. This emerging duopoly in tech where on one side there is a group of people who are entitled to make massive wealth and demand huge salaries and, on the other, are the open source maintainers, civic hackers, and computer science teachers who are being disloyal to the noble ideals of tech for not wanting to eat cat food is serves the industry poorly.

I engage in this hyperbole to make a point -- an industry that was built by many idealists who saw tech as being an engine to democratization and equality is now becoming exaggerated mirror of society large.

And if you're one of those making $250k, $300k, $500k at some tech company and demanding people work for free or else you'll accuse them of being sellouts for wanting to pay their rent -- well, look in the mirror before you cast that stone.

Re: Give away your code, but never your time

#37
The author seems to believe contributions of code or contributions of bug reports are a net negative for the project, while the only thing that the project needs to survive is money to pay for the author's time.

That is exactly backwards. Nearly all open source projects actually do not need any money at all to grow and prosper. They simply need contributions.. of time. In the form of bug reports and code.

Take care of your users, first, and the money will follow.

Re: Give away your code, but never your time

#38
post #26
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nor have I. As a manager/co-owner I can't think of a reasonable business-friendly way to allow my developers to spend work time on OSS. I would love to, of course, but our systems really do not facilitate community involvement.

> I would love to, of course If you did, you'd have found a way for it to work. Making a pretty cool deploy script? Document it and put it out there as OSS. Making a class/module to sort items semantically? Make it OSS. Someone made an IDE extension to syntax highlight WebVTT files? Make i OSS. Made a file lister/selector for JQuery? OSS. Integrating 3rd party X with 3rd party Y? Opensource your module for it. Unless…

I read parent comment as referring to contributing to an existing active open source project vs just making things you've built open source.

Re: Give away your code, but never your time

#40

>If you’re the leader of one of these projects, charge an annual fee for community membership. Open source, closed community. The message to users should be “do whatever you want with the code, but pay us for our time if you want to influence the project’s future.” Lock non-paying users out of the forum and issue tracker, and ignore their emails. People who don’t pay should feel like they are missing out on the party…

Merging PRs isn't as simple as clicking a button. I wrote this months ago in another comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13231590

> most people are only willing to contribute to open source to the extent that it scratches their itch. They feel that their obligation ends as soon as the code is written, and the maintenance of their code falls on you.

> So from a maintainer perspective, you have to act like people's contributions are your contributions. You have to evaluate the code as if you have to maintain it later, you have to understand the circumstances surrounding it, etc. You have to be aware of everyone's concerns at the same time and make sure you don't end up messing up other people's use cases without good reason. And more often than not PRs reflect a "selfishness" of sorts wherein it solves their problem but breaks the general case.

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