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Android 8.0 Oreo, thoroughly reviewed

arstechnica.com

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Re: Android 8.0 Oreo, thoroughly reviewed

#121

Post by kuschku »

Touche wrote: post #112
kuschku wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple, it means that if the browser would decide to force YouTube into allowing PIP, that would be the browsers legal (and moral right). Additionally, there’s a precedent that users want to be able to control what a site does, and are willing to take extra steps to achieve this, so a browser should implement such functionality ideally in the first place.

There are already numerous examples where browsers intervene to stop user-hostile pages. The reason pop-up ads largely don't exist any more is because browsers intervened to kill them.

Exactly, and the same should happen here. Users should be able to force PiP.

Re: Android 8.0 Oreo, thoroughly reviewed

#122

Post by eco »

Jedd wrote: post #114
discreditable wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were you aware that Android has built-in tinting capability? It's under Display > Night Light. There's a quick tile for it too.

I wasn't - but now I am, thanks! I have enabled it and will get to try it in 12 hours from now. Twilight has Hue integration, gentle transition, and a few other nifty features, which I'm probably not going to want to abandon - though I'm sure the native feature will gently encourage me to re-fit out my Home with a confusingly named Google product.

My understanding was that unless you were rooted Twilight doesn't actually filter out blue light. Instead it does a red overlay. That makes the screen brighter which lets you turn down the overall brightness resulting in less blue light but it's not as good as a true blue light filter that actually removes blue (which is what the built in support does and why it needed hardware support).

Edit: And adding a little more I just read, because it uses a red overlay it red tints what was pure black pixels which isn't helpful.

Re: Android 8.0 Oreo, thoroughly reviewed

#123

Post by apostacy »

noisem4ker wrote: post #101
kuschku wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s their problem. A browser should always give a user the upper hand. Browser block popups, forcefully enable right-click on sites that disable it, browsers allow users to forcefully enable zoom, or background playback. And just like that, browsers should also allow users to forcefully enable PiP.

In a similar fashion, Firefox for Android should prevent YouTube from pausing when it detects it has lost focus, as that's clearly an abuse of power with the shameless intent to inhibit non-Chrome browser functionality. See my other comment a little up the tree. Too bad Mozilla won't ever dare to defend themselves from Google's bullying and will happily accept having background playback on YouTube, until now one of t…

Thank you for sharing this. These are exactly the types of pain points where Mozilla could distinguish itself.

Re: Android 8.0 Oreo, thoroughly reviewed

#124

Post by gpderetta »

acoard wrote: post #116
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a broader question about a user's will and the sites intent especially when it comes to business plans of the site The site's business plans are not my problem. Basically, my phone and my computer should do what I want. Why is there even an API to make a video player enter/exit full-screen mode ? That's 100% a user decision and there is no valid reason why that should ever be exposed to JS.

>Why is there even an API to make a video player enter/exit full-screen mode ? That's 100% a user decision and there is no valid reason why that should ever be exposed to JS. There absolutely are valid reasons and responsible uses for the browser to expose that API. Instead the argument should be around the irresponsible uses justifying hiding that part of the API. Valid reasons to expose full-screen to the API: * An…

There is a long history of browsers disabling or crippling features because they get abused by web pages. In fact is is almost a rule that if a feature can be abused, it will be abused.

A possible solution is having a "responsible app mode" in browsers. Whitelisted webpages have full access to these privileged APIs which would otherwise be stubbed out and non-functional (hopefully in a way that a webpage can't detect).

Re: Android 8.0 Oreo, thoroughly reviewed

#125

Post by awesomepeter »

zeveb wrote: post #109
kinlan wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm disputing the fact there was a casual offhand design, and I don't think hiding the state of the render or the browser helps anyone not least developers who need the information about the state of their page. I'm not saying that there can't be meaningful response from the browser to user hostile actions, I don't think anyone disagrees. There's a broader question about a user's will and the sites intent especially…

> I don't think hiding the state of the render or the browser helps anyone not least developers who need the information about the state of their page. I don't care about helping developers who want to hinder my usage of my browser on my hardware. It's my CPU they are executing on, and thus it should be I & I alone who determines what is executed.

Well you do determine what is executed. Don't use chrome, don't open the website.

Re: Android 8.0 Oreo, thoroughly reviewed

#126

Post by arjie »

noisem4ker wrote: post #120
nol13 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious to know if with youtube red, if i play in the background is it smart enough to switch to an audio only stream, or still full bandwidth?

Good question. As they normally serve their content as separate audio and video streams, it should be perfectly feasible to do that. I wouldn't bet on it, however.

I believe if you use the Youtube Music app to play things, you'll get audio only.

Re: Android 8.0 Oreo, thoroughly reviewed

#127

Post by pas »

Touche wrote: post #84
pas wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That should be a browser option. (Show exit full-screen button or not.) Also, especially for video, the browser should be able to play it full screen without any distractions. Of course, there are optional enhancements (subtitles, or different audio tracks) driven via JS. And for those the controls have to go somewhere. Ideally, if there were a standard for those, the browser could handle it. (But then we're at the p…

Sounds like you are advocating for something very different than the current APIs. You're asking that the browser define its own UI for an exit button. How does it know where to put that? What if it is a game in a ` ` element and the button overlays some important UI in the game? I think you're overreacting to one bad-actor. Inevitably your suggestion here leads to good-actor pages having much less power to present g…

I like the trust model that current browsers do. If I trust a page they can use the full viewport or screen, and a lot of keys, etc.

> You're asking that the browser define its own UI for an exit button.

Yes. Currently firefox puts a "to exit full screen press esc" OSD already on videos, that also interferes with visual presentation of sites/directors. So ... directors already don't put shit there.

The same thing goes for walled gardens (like Apple's - they don't allow some things), the problem is not that it's curated, the problem is that there are insufficient tools available for users to put their walls where they want.

Yes, by default I don't want to allow blocking right click. (You might be familiar with the saga of this bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=78414 . )

Re: Android 8.0 Oreo, thoroughly reviewed

#128

Post by on_and_off »

sangnoir wrote: post #95
joshuamorton wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's only available on 7.0+ phones with hardware support (currently I think only the pixels?)

Context (emphasis mine): >> After my Pixel updated recently to Oreo , being frustrated by a constant notification for Twilight

Twilight is a third party app.

It draws a red layer on top of everything else. This is why the system displays a notification : it wants you to know that an app is drawing on top of everything.

The system settings works very differently, it directly applies a matrix to what needs to be displayed. This is way more efficiencient since applying this matrix is basically free instead of adding one layer with alpha composition.

It also allows other customizations, like adapting the screen for deuteranomaly.

Ideally, Google should open the API behind this feature at some point.

Re: Android 8.0 Oreo, thoroughly reviewed

#129

Post by on_and_off »

kuschku wrote: post #102
zengid wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have it on my Motorola Play.

Great, how does that help me on my Nexus 5X? Alternatively, do you get Android Preview Releases on your Motorola Play? The issue is that there’s no device suitable for development (meaning that you get preview releases, so you can fix your bugs before users have the new android) which also supports Night Light.

Doesn't the pixel has both night light and O ?

Also, why do you need to test night light on O ?

Re: Android 8.0 Oreo, thoroughly reviewed

#130

Post by on_and_off »

zeep wrote: post #87

A bit off-topic but will Android P/9.0 be the last version before you have to switch to Fuchsia?

There are no official plans for Fuchsia.

If anything O makes you think that Google plans to keep Android around for the long run since it aims at putting it in a good architectural position for the next 5/10 years.

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