Live data from Hacker News

Equifax security freeze PINs are the timestamp of when you request the freeze

twitter.com

161–170 of 193 posts

Re: Equifax security freeze PINs are the timestamp of when you request the freeze

#161
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if management doesn't hire a security team? What if management hires incompetent security team?

>What if management doesn't hire a security team? That's clearly negligence. >What if management hires incompetent security team? That's harder to do because you have to establish competence, which has led to a bunch of hazing rituals via whiteboard for general software development and a lot of other insecurities. Being a security professional isn't regulated by law, so you can't check the law to determine if someone…

>What if management doesn't hire a security team?

"That's clearly negligence."

Great so you just made it illegal or impossible to create a start up, congratulations.

Re: Equifax security freeze PINs are the timestamp of when you request the freeze

#162
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real engineers have a system in place for this. It's called "Professional Engineer" and it's managed by NCEES. There is no possible reason that practice cannot directly apply to software engineering, except for the cultural refusal of software engineers to take responsibility for anything.

While I agree, how do you apply software engineering practices in a field where a good chunk of the workforce doesn't have formal computer science education?

We have literally centuries of history in engineering in the physical sciences to use as an example.

This industry resists because it's filled with CS folks who either can't or won't believe that there is anything more to engineering than data structures and algorithms trivia.

Re: Equifax security freeze PINs are the timestamp of when you request the freeze

#164
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real engineers have a system in place for this. It's called "Professional Engineer" and it's managed by NCEES. There is no possible reason that practice cannot directly apply to software engineering, except for the cultural refusal of software engineers to take responsibility for anything.

This concept is really not at all portable to software, especially security. It's a tempting analogy, but an invalid one.

No, it's not even an analogy. The precise methods and regulations are almost directly transferable. People are doing it. It works.

It just needs to be industry-wide.

Re: Equifax security freeze PINs are the timestamp of when you request the freeze

#165
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like PCI compliance? Ask people who've gone through that process how rigorous it is...

It's rigorous, but in all the wrong ways. At $DAY_JOB our security falls into two buckets (1) PCI and (2) stuff that keeps us secure. IDK if it's possible to have a widely accepted security standard that isn't checking nonsensical and out-of-date boxes.

Well, it could be worse:

1) Stuff that keeps you insecure (a.k.a ISO 27001 ISMS stuff) 2) Stuff that somewhat helps, but is covered by fluff (a.k.a. PCI-DSS) 3) Stuff that actually keeps you secure.

PCI-DSS at least gives you a sledgehammer to convince lazy low-level managers to dump ciphers like RC4 and encrypt some of their data. It's not utopia, and it does err on the side of perpetuating banks' infatuation with 3DES too much, but I saw getting good stuff done by using it as an excuse.

You still need to have a competent security team of course, but it helps them not being ignored. Well, sometimes.

Re: Equifax security freeze PINs are the timestamp of when you request the freeze

#166

True thing: until recently you could remove hard inquiries from your credit report merely by pulling your own credit so often in one month using an array of daily monitoring services that you would overflow the field and bump off legit inquiries. I did this in 2009-10, it had been going on for a while, and lasted for a while but sadly I hear they've solved it seemingly by nightly batch job to remove your own credit p…

I recently turned down a job offer at Experian; it (at least their San Diego office) was a shitshow.

You should see Denver. It was like The Shining.

Re: Equifax security freeze PINs are the timestamp of when you request the freeze

#168
post #88

True thing: until recently you could remove hard inquiries from your credit report merely by pulling your own credit so often in one month using an array of daily monitoring services that you would overflow the field and bump off legit inquiries. I did this in 2009-10, it had been going on for a while, and lasted for a while but sadly I hear they've solved it seemingly by nightly batch job to remove your own credit p…

How many requests, specifically, did you have to have to overflow the field?

I'm guessing one of 128, 256, 32768 or 65536

Re: Equifax security freeze PINs are the timestamp of when you request the freeze

#169
There are a few things here that shouldn't surprise me[0], but do. A credit reporting agency's one product is personal data (basically, it's you). Leaking that data basically makes it worthless (or worth a lot less) and besides affecting the people who's data was leaked[1], it damages the product of their competitors. You'd think that would be something that's protected with so many layers that a breach of their web property wouldn't make much of a difference[2].

At previous employers, without going into terribly much detail, we had an asset that was treated with the kind of security that something like this should have been treated with. It was on a segregated network that could only be accessed through proxy hosts, requiring two-factor authentication. The proxy hosts were hardened (only the specific, needed, services/components installed/running, audited and firewalled to death). The devices in the secure network could not see the corporate network, let alone the Internet and the corporate network/internet could not see these devices. Even special 'management interfaces' for corporate devices were segregated. This was in addition to all of the rigor put in to securing each endpoint.

Companies need to realize that security is purely a defense related behavior. You have to be "perfect" 100% of the time, but your attacker need only be right a small number of times. The goal is to increase the number of times an attacker has to be right to get at your data. From ensuring your database accounts can only execute specific things[2], that your web servers are hardened and isolated to limit exposure, to properly configured firewalls (including application-layer firewalls/log analysis). And ensuring that employee access to high-value targets is as minimal as possible and protected thoroughly. There are both "preventative" and "reductive" technologies that need to be put in place. Preventative is designed to stop a breach, reductive is designed to ensure that if breached, the breach is either worthless (i.e. proper password hashing) or caught and interrupted before all of the data is exfiltrated. It's a lot easier to explain to investors (and your fellow countrymen) that a couple of million user accounts were exposed than it is to explain that 124 million of them left.

From the looks of it, it appears Equifax treats security like most large, non-tech businesses -- an expense that should be cut as deeply as possible. It's probably fitting that they have the word "fax" in their name. If I had a guess, they probably have mandatory security auditing requirements, they paid the least they could to meet that regulation, and got the answer they paid for (or found someone to give them the answer). I'll also guess that this PIN issue will turn out not to be the worst of the security practices in place -- I mean, how many weeks did they wait to report this[3]?

[0] I have a few years' history at a large corporation working in and around security. I've seen the ugly, though I feel that we handled things very well (incredibly well compared against Equifax!)

[1] i.e. not their customers.

[2] I'm thinking in terms of a typical SQL server, where one can eliminate table/view level access in favor of stored procedures that limit what they provide and require a level of knowledge of the operation of the system (and can be tracked by logging in a manner that identifies behavior that's not normal).

[3] And is it just me being overly cynical or does anyone else think that they waited until a historic hurricane would dominate the news cycle before going public with it? It was pretty good timing, really -- coming right off of Harvey and right into Irma, it's easy to miss this story among the other big news (one 'general news/politics' site that I expected to see all kinds of headlines on had it quite low on the fold for a day and nowhere to be found, today). Or maybe they were just waiting to give time for more of their higher-ups to sell stock. /s

Re: Equifax security freeze PINs are the timestamp of when you request the freeze

#170

It's time to have a mandatory certification for people who develop critical systems. After such certification, you can consider such an implementation a malpractice, and sue them for it (of course the penalty is paid by the insurance company which sold the malpractice insurance). Doctors, lawyers, and many other professions have such system, why can't we have it as well?

The best and most legendary developers still make mistakes that cause this kind of thing. And certified or not, all developers run into deadlines that result in production of imperfect code (and that word is key -- code has to be perfect ... always ... if that's your only defense).

While writing secure code using best practices is a big part of the security equation, any company that stops there will be pwned. The most oft-used illustration in securing systems is "the onion". You need to layer on protections, from firewalls (both traditional and application layer), to solid access control to simply making sure that systems are configured properly (just hit up any SSL testing site and pop in just about every non-tech business' main web page - might as well just make the result page static with a big letter "F"). Heck, even technologies like ASLR/DEP are an extra layer.

The goal is to make an attacker have more than a few hurdles to hop[0] in order to breach and to ensure that if you are breached, the value of what is exfiltrated is either worthless (i.e. properly hashed passwords) or detected and stopped before it's all gone (partial breaches aren't awesome, but it's easier to explain 1% of your data being leaked than it is to explain all of it being leaked).

[0] I've always liked that sarcastic advice of "If you and your friend encounter a bear ... run ... you needn't out run the bear, you only need outrun your friend". If you make things difficult enough, your attacker might move on to another target. And hopefully, if they succeeded in breaching part of the defenses, someone will discover it before they return and shore up what wasn't "perfect".

Post reply on HN