How Many Years of Life Does That House Cost? • Hacker News Board

Re: How Many Years of Life Does That House Cost?

#291

Post by bryondowd » Sat, Sep 09, 2017, 2:35 PM UTC

c22 wrote: post #221

CoryG89 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of us don't have parents who have more money than we do.

Neither do all of my friends. All that's required is having parents that want to help you get a house. For instance my girlfriend makes twice the money her parents ever did. She still couldn't have afforded the full down payment on her house without a 4% loan from her mother as they were entering retirement. This arrangement ends up being beneficial to all parties.

I wonder how common even that much help is. That would be completely unthinkable to anyone in my circle. I personally send about $400 per month on average to help my mother make ends meet. I'm certainly not going to be getting a several thousand dollar loan from anyone in my family.

For reference, this is in southern New Jersey and I'm on the older end of the millennials.

Re: How Many Years of Life Does That House Cost?

#292

Post by dahart » Sat, Sep 09, 2017, 2:37 PM UTC

lpolovets wrote: post #18

I liked the visualization and data, but I don't think it makes sense to compare home prices to wages w/o considering alternatives to home ownership. Home prices don't exit in a vacuum. That is, if a home is 10x the median salary, you can't really say "well, if I didn't buy a home I could work 10 years less." That's because the alternative to buying is renting, which is also expensive. So sure, a mortgage in SF is $6k…

> So sure, a mortgage in SF is $6k/mo. But rent might be $6k/mo as well -- and you don't earn any equity or tax write-offs while renting.

When you rent, your money is gone. When you buy, you normally get most or all of it back later. There's barely any economic comparison between renting and ownership. The tax write offs is the one of the least of your concerns.

People go completely and absolutely nuts when they end up "underwater" with mortgages, which means the sale price of the house at some point becomes less than what you bought it for, or worse, less than the remainder of what you owe. It's an utter and total disaster if you can only get back 80% of what you paid. And yet nobody blinks an eye about sending 100% of their money down the rental drain.

With ownership, you add to the value/legacy that you can pass to your family when you die. As a renter, you add nothing.

When renting, people often get priced out of their apartments, or evicted for circumstances beyond their control. With ownership, the sale price is once, and generally only rare major disasters can push you out. The risks to renting are greater than the risks for home ownership.

These things are why it's so incredibly important that home ownership is affordable across the country. If it goes out of reach, we will have a huge economic problem with large consequences.

Re: How Many Years of Life Does That House Cost?

#293

Post by andyjohnson0 » Sat, Sep 09, 2017, 2:38 PM UTC

epicalex wrote: post #286

mobiletelephone wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait... Bournemouth and Dorset!?!?

Yep, Sandbanks brings the average up http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/Sandbanks.html

"Sandbanks has, by area, the fourth highest land value in the world" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbanks

Re: How Many Years of Life Does That House Cost?

#294

Post by ethbro » Sat, Sep 09, 2017, 2:40 PM UTC

gozur88 wrote: post #214

Joof wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose your odds of landing in that exact scenerio are .001%. If you are unlucky, should we pay for you? What about your kids? It seems valuable to society to not have old, homeless people causing trouble. But that's just me.

That .001% is what charity is for. Personally, I think people should pay the price for their stupidity. Subsidizing stupidity never works out in the end.

The problem is you're not thinking of externalities of homelessness, much like a functioning health system w/ insurance.

Ultimately, saying neither of these is worth spending communal government revenues on collapses down to "I'm okay with people dying on the street."

Which is not offered as a straw man, but because that's a very possible outcome. And given that, if we're not okay with that, then we're going to spend significant resources to keep that from happening (ER care, homeless programs).

Social security attempts to invest that earlier in a person's life, so that the money treating more dire circumstances can be saved.

... And also allows for some measure of human dignity for those who might not have been taught about compound interest at age 6.

Re: How Many Years of Life Does That House Cost?

#295

Post by madengr » Sat, Sep 09, 2017, 2:58 PM UTC

myth_drannon wrote: post #120

dagw wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your roof needs replacing every 15 years then there is something seriously wrong with the structural integrity of your house.

Shingles roof is replaced every 15 years, if you have more expensive metal roof it's every 50 years

Composite shingles are more like 30 years.

Re: How Many Years of Life Does That House Cost?

#296

Post by madengr » Sat, Sep 09, 2017, 2:59 PM UTC

isostatic wrote: post #258

FLUX-YOU wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The property group takes on risk if something like a roof needs replacing unless they just keep a lot of cash sitting around for just such a thing. They may also have access to better loans but I have no idea for sure. I don't want to keep a pile of cash around waiting for housing emergencies (personal emergencies are a different thing), and I certainly don't want to sell stocks to fix a roof if my roof fails during…

What is it with US roofs? Are they really all terrible, you're the third person in about 10 posts to be scared about massive costs to replace a roof. setting aside trees, fires etc it hadn't even occurred to me that a roof may need replacing, aside from maybe the occasional tile.

A 15 year roof replacement is BS. It's more like 30.

Re: How Many Years of Life Does That House Cost?

#297

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Sep 09, 2017, 3:03 PM UTC

dahart wrote: post #292

lpolovets wrote: post #18

I liked the visualization and data, but I don't think it makes sense to compare home prices to wages w/o considering alternatives to home ownership. Home prices don't exit in a vacuum. That is, if a home is 10x the median salary, you can't really say "well, if I didn't buy a home I could work 10 years less." That's because the alternative to buying is renting, which is also expensive. So sure, a mortgage in SF is $6k…

> So sure, a mortgage in SF is $6k/mo. But rent might be $6k/mo as well -- and you don't earn any equity or tax write-offs while renting. When you rent, your money is gone. When you buy, you normally get most or all of it back later. There's barely any economic comparison between renting and ownership. The tax write offs is the one of the least of your concerns. People go completely and absolutely nuts when they end…

[deleted]

Re: How Many Years of Life Does That House Cost?

#298

Post by astura » Sat, Sep 09, 2017, 3:06 PM UTC

dahart wrote: post #292

lpolovets wrote: post #18

I liked the visualization and data, but I don't think it makes sense to compare home prices to wages w/o considering alternatives to home ownership. Home prices don't exit in a vacuum. That is, if a home is 10x the median salary, you can't really say "well, if I didn't buy a home I could work 10 years less." That's because the alternative to buying is renting, which is also expensive. So sure, a mortgage in SF is $6k…

> So sure, a mortgage in SF is $6k/mo. But rent might be $6k/mo as well -- and you don't earn any equity or tax write-offs while renting. When you rent, your money is gone. When you buy, you normally get most or all of it back later. There's barely any economic comparison between renting and ownership. The tax write offs is the one of the least of your concerns. People go completely and absolutely nuts when they end…

When I sell my house I'm not getting back all my property taxes paid, interest paid, closing costs, inspection cost, realtor commission, insurance payments, and routine maintenance costs.

Re: How Many Years of Life Does That House Cost?

#299

Post by aceon48 » Sat, Sep 09, 2017, 3:23 PM UTC

0xbear wrote: post #225

ianai wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this highlights how expensive living is and how little income is. If we're going to have a "free economy" without an end of life safety net (i.e. Social security) then it has to be possible to work a lifetime and retire on savings made. But most indicators show little to no saving for most people. It sure seems something is deeply wrong.

I know a dude who makes $800k/yr and still lives paycheck to paycheck. Lack of savings is not necessarily caused by lower income. People tend to shovel money out the door as quickly as it comes in.

What does he do to make that kind of money?

Re: How Many Years of Life Does That House Cost?

#300

Post by stevenwoo » Sat, Sep 09, 2017, 3:24 PM UTC

rsheridan6 wrote: post #270

stevenwoo wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cockroaches are rampant in larger apartment complexes. If you go to poorer or less well maintained places and restaurants, the things are literally crawling over everything - it's hard to believe it's America. Mosquito breeding areas in all the ubiquitous slow winding bayous and creeks. The one month or so of winter cold enough to freeze results in sleet not snow most of the time due to prevailing atmospheric conditi…

I lived in Houston for a few years and I'd take its flaws over being house poor in a coastal city.

That's fair - just pointing out if one hasn't lived there there are some signficant downsides not included in the housing comparison. Grew up there and worked and lived there a few decades later.