Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores • Hacker News Board

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#81

Post by gyardley » Sat, Sep 09, 2017, 1:33 AM UTC

This entire thread is a great example of how many if not most Canadians will passionately defend any old goofy policy, as long as it's different from how the Americans do it.

I've lived in a variety of American states as well as Ontario and I really can't believe what I'm reading - anyone defending the selection, knowledge of the staff, price, hours, pretty much anything relating to the LCBO vs. a privatized but regulated market is a few Timbits short of a Snack Pack. I suspect the very same will be true with The Weed Store once it rolls out - way better than prohibition, but much worse than Colorado or Oregon or Washington.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#82

Post by verelo » Sat, Sep 09, 2017, 1:35 AM UTC

acchow wrote: post #72

rbobby wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The union at the LCBO is huge and powerful. The jobs, even seasonal ones, pay well [...] And oddly enough I'm perfectly happy with that. Ontario's strategy with booze is responsible consumption (or whatever it's called)... essentially price it sufficiently high that we don't get too many drunks on the street. Given how badly alcohol abuse can mess up lives (not just the abuser but their family and friends too, not…

> essentially price it sufficiently high that we don't get too many drunks on the street. Other countries don't need artificially inflated prices and a government-regulated sales to accomplish this.

And then again countries like Australia have this problem and some very strict laws.

I think the reality is that this is way more about national identity than it is the laws. As we have seen with legalization in Canada, the laws don't mean much anyway.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#83

Post by Waterluvian » Sat, Sep 09, 2017, 1:35 AM UTC

criddell wrote: post #13

JPKab wrote: post #7

I live in Colorado. I think they are really blowing it by making the stores government owned. In Colorado, the stores are privately owned but very, very strictly regulated. Plants are tracked with an RFID all the way to the products derived from them, with a full chain of custody all the way to purchase. Only adults 21 and up can enter them, with a strict dual-check of identification (once to enter, and again when pa…

You're making a lot of assumptions about how they will run the stores. Other people have already mentioned how the government runs the alcohol stores and (IMHO) they do a pretty good job of it. I live in Texas now and when I go back to Ontario to visit my family, it does seem weird that I can't buy beer in a 7-11 or a grocery store or in a drive through shop (not sure these are a good idea). Being the sole seller als…

Not sure how local or new this is but in Waterloo I can buy beer and cider at Sobeys.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#84

Post by mstodd » Sat, Sep 09, 2017, 1:43 AM UTC

tekni5 wrote: post #66

If anyone is interested, there is an interesting documentary about the LCBO. Developed by homebrewers, so it's not completely impartial but also quite fair. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn555TyJJw0 Giving government absolute control over distribution of a non-essential product/service is probably not the best idea, but at least it's better than having that product/service be completely illegal. Ideally they should…

Ideally a business should be able to sell whatever it wants to whomever it wants. I'd argue that some US states that have legalized it are worse off than when it was illegal. The regulation and taxation is ridiculous, and when it's legalized, it's much less likely to be taken off the books entirely. It's sad to call all the rules and regulations around growing, distributing, and consuming a plant a 'win'.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#85

Post by mstodd » Sat, Sep 09, 2017, 1:48 AM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #7

I live in Colorado. I think they are really blowing it by making the stores government owned. In Colorado, the stores are privately owned but very, very strictly regulated. Plants are tracked with an RFID all the way to the products derived from them, with a full chain of custody all the way to purchase. Only adults 21 and up can enter them, with a strict dual-check of identification (once to enter, and again when pa…

Both scenarios are bad in different ways, but Colorado is probably better. Best would be to have no regulation and especially no taxes.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#86

Post by giarc » Sat, Sep 09, 2017, 1:48 AM UTC

iamatworknow wrote: post #5

I live on the border of New York and Ontario/Quebec and I can't see how this won't spur legalization here. The border is already incredibly porous and the smuggling routes already exist. This will just make it even easier.

Smuggling a case of beer across will result in you losing the beer. Smuggling marijuana will result in a felony and never being allowed to cross the border again.

It doesn't make sense to illegally transport marijuana across the border just so you can buy it legally from a store.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#87

Post by giarc » Sat, Sep 09, 2017, 1:52 AM UTC

The one thing missing from most comments I see here is price parity and equality. I've lived in Ontario (government liquor stores) and now live in Alberta (private liquor stores).

The big perk about Ontario liquor is that it's the same price no matter what store you walk into. Doesn't matter if you are in a small town of 1000 people with one liquor store or in Toronto with 500 stores.

In Alberta, if you are in a small town and your only option is Joe's Liquor Store, you're going to pay $55 for 24 bottles of Canadian that go for $20 less at the Safeway liquor store in a city. And in actuality, you can pay $55 for that case in the middle of Calgary if it's a mom and pop shop.

I suspect the same will be true for marijuana. Same prices regardless of what LCBO you walk into.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#88

Post by aphextron » Sat, Sep 09, 2017, 2:05 AM UTC

giarc wrote: post #87

The one thing missing from most comments I see here is price parity and equality. I've lived in Ontario (government liquor stores) and now live in Alberta (private liquor stores). The big perk about Ontario liquor is that it's the same price no matter what store you walk into. Doesn't matter if you are in a small town of 1000 people with one liquor store or in Toronto with 500 stores. In Alberta, if you are in a smal…

>I suspect the same will be true for marijuana. Same prices regardless of what LCBO you walk into.

You'd be surprised how self regulating the market is for marijuana though. People always want to make the alcohol analogy, but it's a totally different thing. Marijuana has a long tradition of home cultivation and use, as well as a thriving well established black market which will always pick up the slack. Prices tend to be very stable across the board in California at least. Without any government run outlets the price is the same across the entire state.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#89

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Sep 09, 2017, 2:20 AM UTC

3pt14159 wrote: post #15

I'm a Toronto native. These are the forces driving this decision: 1. Provincial government is cash poor. The LCBO is a huge source of cash, what government would give up another source? This isn't taxes, this is profit. "Isn't this just another tax?" One might ask, but no it's not. The reason is that Ontario has fewer alcohol distribution centres than a free market would provide. Most people just do a bigger alcohol…

[deleted]

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#90

Post by DKnoll » Sat, Sep 09, 2017, 2:37 AM UTC

wolco wrote: post #23

3pt14159 wrote: post #15

I'm a Toronto native. These are the forces driving this decision: 1. Provincial government is cash poor. The LCBO is a huge source of cash, what government would give up another source? This isn't taxes, this is profit. "Isn't this just another tax?" One might ask, but no it's not. The reason is that Ontario has fewer alcohol distribution centres than a free market would provide. Most people just do a bigger alcohol…

I haven't heard of one case of a dispensary being run by organized crime since they started randomly shutting them down. People automatically assume these are run by biker gangs but the truth is these are small businesses with some chains moving over from BC. This was a bad decision by a government who is on the way out. All this does is ensure the blackmarket keeps going strong.

Dispensary operators are not criminals because of gang ties (it's not illegal just to be a member of the HA for example), they're criminals because they contravene the criminal code by operating.