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Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

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Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#21

Post by deskamess »

criddell wrote: post #13
JPKab wrote: post #7

I live in Colorado. I think they are really blowing it by making the stores government owned. In Colorado, the stores are privately owned but very, very strictly regulated. Plants are tracked with an RFID all the way to the products derived from them, with a full chain of custody all the way to purchase. Only adults 21 and up can enter them, with a strict dual-check of identification (once to enter, and again when pa…

You're making a lot of assumptions about how they will run the stores. Other people have already mentioned how the government runs the alcohol stores and (IMHO) they do a pretty good job of it. I live in Texas now and when I go back to Ontario to visit my family, it does seem weird that I can't buy beer in a 7-11 or a grocery store or in a drive through shop (not sure these are a good idea). Being the sole seller als…

There is incredible mark-up in alcohol prices - there is little to no benefit of their bulk purchasing to be seen. The taxes are pretty high.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#22

Post by macspoofing »

3pt14159 wrote: post #15

I'm a Toronto native. These are the forces driving this decision: 1. Provincial government is cash poor. The LCBO is a huge source of cash, what government would give up another source? This isn't taxes, this is profit. "Isn't this just another tax?" One might ask, but no it's not. The reason is that Ontario has fewer alcohol distribution centres than a free market would provide. Most people just do a bigger alcohol…

>Provincial government is cash poor.

More spendthrift than cash poor. The province has more than enough revenue but cannot control its spending.

>The current dispensaries are run by criminals.

By definition. Just like bootleg operations during prohibition were all run by criminals. Legalization would remove this feature of the system.

>Controls over potency are a real problem in the current dispensaries and because of the sketchiness of the current people involved and their distribution networks, the government would have to get involved auditing anyway.

Again. This is where Health Canada and the Ontario government can step in and regulate standards. They do that with alcohol (hard to find anything over 40%). If there are unsafe levels of potency, regulate the potency. Government does that with everything else in the market. Pretty much every food item at a grocery store is regulated in some way. My father works at a supplier of frozen food to some of the biggest conglomerates. There are insane amount of regulations related to food safety because if you get sloppy, a Listeria contamination of a TV dinner could kill hundreds of people. And yes, they clean constantly, they have to maintain proper records and have to have an on-site lab that tests samples 3 or 4 times a day - and yes, they get audited.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#23

Post by wolco »

3pt14159 wrote: post #15

I'm a Toronto native. These are the forces driving this decision: 1. Provincial government is cash poor. The LCBO is a huge source of cash, what government would give up another source? This isn't taxes, this is profit. "Isn't this just another tax?" One might ask, but no it's not. The reason is that Ontario has fewer alcohol distribution centres than a free market would provide. Most people just do a bigger alcohol…

I haven't heard of one case of a dispensary being run by organized crime since they started randomly shutting them down. People automatically assume these are run by biker gangs but the truth is these are small businesses with some chains moving over from BC.

This was a bad decision by a government who is on the way out.

All this does is ensure the blackmarket keeps going strong.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#24

Post by macspoofing »

criddell wrote: post #13
JPKab wrote: post #7

I live in Colorado. I think they are really blowing it by making the stores government owned. In Colorado, the stores are privately owned but very, very strictly regulated. Plants are tracked with an RFID all the way to the products derived from them, with a full chain of custody all the way to purchase. Only adults 21 and up can enter them, with a strict dual-check of identification (once to enter, and again when pa…

You're making a lot of assumptions about how they will run the stores. Other people have already mentioned how the government runs the alcohol stores and (IMHO) they do a pretty good job of it. I live in Texas now and when I go back to Ontario to visit my family, it does seem weird that I can't buy beer in a 7-11 or a grocery store or in a drive through shop (not sure these are a good idea). Being the sole seller als…

>Other people have already mentioned how the government runs the alcohol stores and (IMHO) they do a pretty good job of it.

No. They don't. I was recently at an Ontario beach on a long weekend - all the stores on the strip leading up to the beach were open because of the tourists and cottagers flocking into the area...except for the LCBO. The LCBO was closed because it was a stat holiday. No business would close on their biggest sales day of the year. Try buying alcohol on New Years Eve and see the insane lineup because they close early New Years Eve and are closed completely on New Years Day. Or try grabbing a bottle of liquor on your way to your buddies house for dinner in the evening on a Sunday.

Those stores don't need to exist. It is so stupid, it's beyond reason. The liquor is marked-up and expensive too.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#25

Post by wolco »

iamatworknow wrote: post #11
vkou wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think they are really blowing it by making the stores government owned. Why? The largest chain of BC liquor stores is government-owned and operated. They do a pretty decent job of it.

Ontario does too. You can complain that the prices are a little high, but the LCBO stores I've been to have always been much cleaner and the staff more attentive, knowledgable, and personable than any privately owned store over the border in New York.

LCBO employees will not be knowledgable with pot. Ever try to have a conversation about wine with an employee they are not hired with that knowledge background.

The prices are very high compared to other areas that have freer access. Everything has a floor price that doesn't allow companies to sell for less than that amount.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#26

Post by wolco »

ape4 wrote: post #14
plantel wrote: post #6

Toronto is currently full of dispensaries on every corner. Some are open late and you're always close to one, independent local businesses with people in the community making money and spending it locally. It will be sad to see a government monopoly turn weed distribution into the LCBO style. Expect prices to go up to $15-20g, cut down the number of locations and closes at 9pm.

Police warn organized crime, including the Hells Angels, has infiltrated the medical marijuana market http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/police-warn-organized-c...

Sometimes they release this information to scare and control the population.

This is talking about the hell angels getting a medical supply and selling it on the black market. Not the same as running a store and none of this changes by having the lcbo run stores the supplier are licensed by government of Canada.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#28

Post by mwdalrymple »

The LCBO is a good employer for stupid people. Those salaries go right back into the economy. These unionized jobs also come with a great pension providing retirement security. I am quite happy with this.

The government privatizing things such as Ontario Hydro has been a huge disaster. At least they are not stupid enough to give this up.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#29

Post by slavik81 »

mfoy_ wrote: post #2

A step in the right direction, I guess. Ontario can be surprisingly conservative about these things... they only recently started allowing alcohol to be sold in grocery stores. Seems the initial round of legislation will legalize it, but with heavy restrictions.

The government of Ontario makes a net profit of ~$2B/year off the LCBO and employs about ~7000 people at wages way above what you'd probably see in a privatized market. There's not too much grumbling from consumers, so nobody in government really wants to rock the boat.

Having experienced both, as a consumer I prefer the Alberta model with privatized retailers because there are far more stores and the hours are better. Actually, I found this old Fraser Institute report on the privatization of liquor in Alberta to be rather interesting. https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/Privatiz...

It's not a big deal for me personally, but there's also more room for unique shops. For example, one of the markets nearby does a lot of specialty whiskey imports.

Re: Ontario unveils plan for government chain of marijuana stores

#30

Post by criddell »

macspoofing wrote: post #24
criddell wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making a lot of assumptions about how they will run the stores. Other people have already mentioned how the government runs the alcohol stores and (IMHO) they do a pretty good job of it. I live in Texas now and when I go back to Ontario to visit my family, it does seem weird that I can't buy beer in a 7-11 or a grocery store or in a drive through shop (not sure these are a good idea). Being the sole seller als…

>Other people have already mentioned how the government runs the alcohol stores and (IMHO) they do a pretty good job of it. No. They don't. I was recently at an Ontario beach on a long weekend - all the stores on the strip leading up to the beach were open because of the tourists and cottagers flocking into the area...except for the LCBO. The LCBO was closed because it was a stat holiday. No business would close on t…

On non-holiday weekends, the stores are open Sunday. If you aren't happy about the stores closing for holiday weekends, blame the union. That's something they protect for their members.

> The liquor is marked-up and expensive too.

That's just taxes. Anybody else selling alcohol would have to add their profit on top of that. It might seem expensive, but don't forget that you are helping to pay for government provided services.

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