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How Many Years of Life Does That House Cost?

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Re: How Many Years of Life Does That House Cost?

#51

Post by zaroth »

culturalzero wrote: post #38
zaroth wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's funny, my takeaway was that the vast majority of the US has incredibly affordable housing. But I suppose if your call center employees simply must be living in downtown S.F. the answer must be that we just need lax zoning and higher density!

You clearly don't know what it's like to live on minimum wage right now. It's extremely difficult to live anywhere even close to the Bay area on minimum wage, which let's be real, a call center employee would be on. Public transportation options get figured in there too. I'm very fortunate to have a good job now, but it wasn't all that long ago I was scraping by on near minimum wage.

No, I understand exactly and I think we are in violent agreement.

One cannot afford to live in the Bay Area on anything near minimum wage. So fuck "The Real Bay Area" and live just about anywhere else in the continental US.

Re: How Many Years of Life Does That House Cost?

#53

Post by prklmn »

sbenitoj wrote: post #39
magic_beans wrote: post #8

Is it really necessary to own a home if your mortgage is going to be 20 years long? I get that renting is like throwing money in a hole, but people are so much more nomadic these days. What's the big deal in moving once every 10 years once rent gets unbearable?

Rent is NOT throwing money away, it is HIGHLY dependent on where you're living. There are MANY sunk one-time costs you have to pay when buying a home, including: --realtor commission (averages 6% of home price, or approximately 1.5 years of 30 year mortgage payments) --title fees (frequently 1% of purchase price) --other legal and bank fees The NYT has a buy vs rent calculator that helps make decisions like these: ht…

The one time costs involved in buying a house do not refute the idea that renting is throwing money away.

Re: How Many Years of Life Does That House Cost?

#54

Post by rconti »

culturalzero wrote: post #38
zaroth wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's funny, my takeaway was that the vast majority of the US has incredibly affordable housing. But I suppose if your call center employees simply must be living in downtown S.F. the answer must be that we just need lax zoning and higher density!

You clearly don't know what it's like to live on minimum wage right now. It's extremely difficult to live anywhere even close to the Bay area on minimum wage, which let's be real, a call center employee would be on. Public transportation options get figured in there too. I'm very fortunate to have a good job now, but it wasn't all that long ago I was scraping by on near minimum wage.

The point of the parent post is the vast amounts of land that contain cheap housing.

Of course, it doesn't address how easy it is to find a job in the first place in those locations, but it's a great point nonetheless.

Re: How Many Years of Life Does That House Cost?

#56

Post by shados »

rconti wrote: post #47
sbenitoj wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also have to factor in the opportunity cost of what you could've done with that down payment (e.g. What would a $100k downpayment invested for 30 years in the stock market be worth vs how much is that worth in your home in 30 years?) The NYT has a buy vs rent calculator that helps make some of these decisions: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-cal...

And of course the NYTimes calculator also factors in home prices appreciation. This is not really academic; it's fairly important. In cheaper housing markets with limited growth, it might be cheaper to rent because the expected cost of a major repair (and return on that investment) are both so low. Of course, you can't ever recognize the value of your house unless you sell it and move somewhere cheaper (or buy a 2nd…

Reverse mortgages are an option too, especially around retirement. I didn't do too much research and I'm sure on paper it's a scam, but with no kids and no one to really give the house to beyond charity when my wife and I kick the bucket, I am considering making my place part of my retirement plan.

Or just sell it to pay rent for the rest of your life. Either way it's a pretty big boon.

Re: How Many Years of Life Does That House Cost?

#57

Post by maxerickson »

zaroth wrote: post #51
culturalzero wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly don't know what it's like to live on minimum wage right now. It's extremely difficult to live anywhere even close to the Bay area on minimum wage, which let's be real, a call center employee would be on. Public transportation options get figured in there too. I'm very fortunate to have a good job now, but it wasn't all that long ago I was scraping by on near minimum wage.

No, I understand exactly and I think we are in violent agreement. One cannot afford to live in the Bay Area on anything near minimum wage. So fuck "The Real Bay Area" and live just about anywhere else in the continental US.

Median wage is 2-3x the minimum wage.

So housing affordability on minimum wage in most of the US is closer to California at median wage than it is to most of the US at median wage.

Re: How Many Years of Life Does That House Cost?

#58

Post by rconti »

FLUX-YOU wrote: post #26
pjc50 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want to have pets? Do you want to redecorate to your own taste? Can you even find anywhere to rent? Not everywhere has a liquid rental market. Moving only once every 10 years sounds great. Renting means maybe having to move on notice as short as one month. Back when I was renting I moved about every 3 years, although that was also house-sharing with other young professionals. Rent is usually more expensive tha…

> also, obviously, after 20 years you have no more payments. You have maintenance. And if something bad happens with the foundation, that's very expensive to fix. Unless you just plan to die and have the house demolished and the property sold (which is honestly preferable in some cases of inheritance). I had to pay $25k to have supports installed in the crawlspace and other mitigation to avoid foundation work. I migh…

(Full disclosure: Bay Area homeowner here)

I can stomach the idea of renting for the rest of my working life. My renting life was good, had more cash to spare, good landlords, etc.

What terrifies me is the idea that I'd have to keep paying rent when I retire.

Re: How Many Years of Life Does That House Cost?

#59

Post by readhn »

xvolter wrote: post #45

The data was very interesting, but there wasn't anything meaningful mentioned that came out of the data, other than possibly where you should look to move to if you have flexibility. I personally bought a house in my early twenties. At the time it was roughly 2.5x my income. I've been there a few years and went through some changes to my employment, I now earn more making it easier. Over the course of ownership, in t…

"my suggestion: Buy a house when you're in your 20s that is affordable."

now folks just need a time machine. simple.

Re: How Many Years of Life Does That House Cost?

#60

Post by ianai »

rconti wrote: post #47
sbenitoj wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also have to factor in the opportunity cost of what you could've done with that down payment (e.g. What would a $100k downpayment invested for 30 years in the stock market be worth vs how much is that worth in your home in 30 years?) The NYT has a buy vs rent calculator that helps make some of these decisions: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-cal...

And of course the NYTimes calculator also factors in home prices appreciation. This is not really academic; it's fairly important. In cheaper housing markets with limited growth, it might be cheaper to rent because the expected cost of a major repair (and return on that investment) are both so low. Of course, you can't ever recognize the value of your house unless you sell it and move somewhere cheaper (or buy a 2nd…

I think this highlights how expensive living is and how little income is. If we're going to have a "free economy" without an end of life safety net (i.e. Social security) then it has to be possible to work a lifetime and retire on savings made. But most indicators show little to no saving for most people. It sure seems something is deeply wrong.
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