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Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

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Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, class action suits aren't really about recovering damages for the class members. Or at least, not entirely. That's almost incidental. Rather, they're most often about leveraging a large class of injured parties--whose injuries are usually relatively minor on an individual basis--to force a change of behavior by adding up all of those small injuries. The cost of pursuing each claim individually would usual…

>And while it's almost inevitable that discussions about class action suits will involve complaints about the lawyers fees, that's not really fair. Of course it's fair. It's not like the members of the class get to shop around for cheaper lawyers. The class gets shit either way, they just have to decide if they hate the company more than the lawyers that charge the obscene percentages. And you can't make any kind of…

Attorneys' fees in a class action have to be approved by the court, and for large class actions the percentage fee tends to be lower than what a privately-retained lawyer would receive. The privately-retained lawyers in NTP's lawsuit against Blackberry got an approximately 1/3 payout of a $600 million settlement. 20-33% is quite typical in a pure contingency situation. Most court-approved fee awards in class actions that large ($100m+) tend to be a lot lower than that, in the 10-20% range. Courts usually will demand that attorneys submit their billing records (or summaries thereof) along with their fee petitions, and will regularly cut down any fee requests that exceed a certain multiple of what the attorneys invested in the case.

This case is typical: https://www.paymentcardsettlement.com/Content/Documents/Orde.... $5.7 billion settlement, about $500 million in attorneys' fees, or less than 10% of the fund. $160 million worth of time invested by the attorneys to get to that point.

> And you can't make any kind of cost argument because a billion dollar case isn't anymore complex than a million dollar case.

That's not true at all. Big dollar value cases involve either large harms to relatively fewer people, or relatively small harms to large numbers of people. The former kind of case often involves complex subject matter, such as financial transactions, medicines, etc. The latter kind of case often involves a very diverse class and complex issues of causation and damages. Consider the TicketMaster lawsuit: the basic theory of damages is that class members would not have purchased the tickets had they known that TicketMaster was marking up things like UPS charges. Well, clearly lots of class members would have purchased the tickets anyway. Coming up with a realistic damages model in that scenario is difficult. Furthermore, in big consumer class actions like that you've got class members in fifty states with fifty different sets of laws.

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#242
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think that’s a generally accepted legal standard. It seems similar to saying that Edward Snowden and Chelsea Manning only released information, which the courts can’t remedy. If anything bad should happen due to that leak, then the courts can remedy that in the case of the people who committed those acts. The government is clearly of the opinion that they can and should prosecute people for leaking informatio…

The difference is that their intentional leaking of classified information as people with a security clearance is letter of the law illegal. The difference seems huge and obvious to my untrained eye.

To add to this, their acts were intentional. Yes, you're very right that they were very much illegal acts. However, it needn't be intentionally spilled classified information in order to be illegal. Under certain circumstances, even accidental 'spillage' is a felony. Negligent 'spillage' is also very much a felony.

I've been through quite a bit of training and held my clearance for years. I was a victim of the OPM hack. Well, I guess I still am a victim. Mens rea doesn't really apply when handling classified material/data. If it is accidental AND you report it properly, it's not jail - you are so losing your job, however. You also lose your clearance. It has been a while, but I'm pretty sure you lose it forever.

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then you would have to show $1000 of actual personal damage, which I doubt few if any can, unless you're thinking Equifax will just settle these one after another. But they're just as capable of multiplying out how many of these will have to happen before the losses devastate them like you just did and at some point will actually show up and make you prove your case.

This is the genius of small-claims court. Equifax has to either send a representative (which would cost them more than $1000), or they lose by default. You don't actually have to prove anything.

It really isn't genius at all. At least in my state, either party can object to the small claims status by simply sending a letter. Then it moves over to normal court with normal lawyers. Already you are out the small claims filing fee (yes, you have to pay the court to even bring a small claims case).

Once in normal court, you would need to hire a lawyer, and they would just find some local representation. At this point, you would probably withdraw the case because it isn't worth that investment.

But suppose you kept going. Their local council is going to proxy their attempts to change venue to where they are located. Unless you had a really compelling argument, they would probably win the change of venue. Now you need to find another lawyer somewhere else, and it is probably an expensive locale like New York or LA where they have a firm on retainer. Still want to push the case? Me neither.

By all means, try the small claims route. But don't think for one second that it is a slam dunk.

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#245
So let me get this right, this company collects credit information and someone hacked into their web server and stole highly sensitive information about most of the adult american population. Then the executives sold their stock a day before they announced the hack to the public. Besides the troubling fact that you still use social security and credit card numbers as any form of reliable authentication, how aren't there already federal agents searching every square inch of the company and interviewing key employees under oath? But no, nobody is securing this evidence and thus any lawsuit will probably either fail or end in a small settlement of an amount the company will not be significantly hurt by, causing no reason for stronger security in the future of this or any other company.

The kind and amount of information warrant strong regulation in the way the data can be stored and processed (separate monitored networks not reachable from the internet would be the absolute minimum), governmental regulation needs to ensure the security of sensitive personal information like this and regular checks need to be conducted to ensure their adherence, especially in the case of a breach like this after the fact, you can't rely on the company conducting a forensic investigation.

But no of course not. I can already hear Americans preach to me how the free market is great and solves all your problems.

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#246
post #17

I'd love to see the $70B number pan out (though $500 per person is less than the damages, I think) -- Equifax is a $17B company, and would presumably stop existing if that happened. On the other hand, these things always settle out of court, and Equifax certainly won't settle the suit for more than they're worth. I said it elsewhere, but I think the right response is to opt out of the class, and sue for $1000 in smal…

They still have the death penalty for humans in the US, why not companies?

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#248
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This class action will likely be settled in the same way the Ticketmaster case was settled ... with a coupon book good for 2 free credit reports.

To be fair, class action suits aren't really about recovering damages for the class members. Or at least, not entirely. That's almost incidental. Rather, they're most often about leveraging a large class of injured parties--whose injuries are usually relatively minor on an individual basis--to force a change of behavior by adding up all of those small injuries. The cost of pursuing each claim individually would usual…

> They may be imperfect, but they're a hell of a lot better than the alternative and have had a profound positive impact on our society.

No, it isn't better than the alternative. The alternative is to have regulators selected and overseen by elected officials regulate the behavior of companies. We instead of a system of regulation by self appointed ad hoc lawyer-regulators negotiating settlements they think will get past the judge overseeing their case and allow them to collect a fee.

The latter is perhaps better than nothing, but it isn't better than the alternative which happens to be in place in the rest of the developed world.

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#249

So let me get this right, this company collects credit information and someone hacked into their web server and stole highly sensitive information about most of the adult american population. Then the executives sold their stock a day before they announced the hack to the public. Besides the troubling fact that you still use social security and credit card numbers as any form of reliable authentication, how aren't th…

> how aren't there already federal agents searching every square inch of the company

Usually reserved for criminal cases, not civil ones.

> regulation in the way the data can be stored and processed

Have it.

> regular checks need to be conducted to ensure their adherence

Have it.

> I can already hear Americans preach to me how the free market is great and solves all your problems.

Please quote me the "solve all your problems" source.

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#250

So let me get this right, this company collects credit information and someone hacked into their web server and stole highly sensitive information about most of the adult american population. Then the executives sold their stock a day before they announced the hack to the public. Besides the troubling fact that you still use social security and credit card numbers as any form of reliable authentication, how aren't th…

Don't conflate the free market with zero regulation.
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