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Uber Faces FBI Probe Over Program Targeting Rival Lyft

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Re: Uber Faces FBI Probe Over Program Targeting Rival Lyft

#31

Post by vkou »

jamesmishra wrote: post #28
wbharding wrote: post #26

This probably explains why Uber charged me $2 last time I canceled a ride with them. They need a billing paradigm that prevents them from being taken advantage of by strategies like those that they employ against their competitors. Nevermind that the ride I canceled was 10+ minutes away, and was canceled immediately upon being booked. Advantage: Lyft.

Hey William, the reason Uber charges a cancellation fee is to compensate the driver for driving towards you. Without cancellation fees, drivers would have to eat the cost of whatever progress they made towards you. While the policy varies by city, typically an UberX or UberBLACK vehicle can be cancelled for free within 2 minutes. UberPOOL rides typically get billed cancellations immediately, because the canceling rid…

> Without cancellation fees, drivers would have to eat the cost of whatever progress they made towards you.

No, without it, Uber would have to eat the cost of whatever progress drivers made towards the rider.

You tell the drivers to go somewhere (And punish them when they don't) - it's on Uber to pay them.

Re: Uber Faces FBI Probe Over Program Targeting Rival Lyft

#32

Post by WaxProlix »

vkou wrote: post #31
jamesmishra wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey William, the reason Uber charges a cancellation fee is to compensate the driver for driving towards you. Without cancellation fees, drivers would have to eat the cost of whatever progress they made towards you. While the policy varies by city, typically an UberX or UberBLACK vehicle can be cancelled for free within 2 minutes. UberPOOL rides typically get billed cancellations immediately, because the canceling rid…

> Without cancellation fees, drivers would have to eat the cost of whatever progress they made towards you. No, without it, Uber would have to eat the cost of whatever progress drivers made towards the rider. You tell the drivers to go somewhere (And punish them when they don't) - it's on Uber to pay them.

Hilarious that there's not even a consideration that glorious Uber eats the cost. It's just that the driver would have to - obviously, who else? At some point it stops being spin and becomes some kind of ideology.

Re: Uber Faces FBI Probe Over Program Targeting Rival Lyft

#34

Post by [deleted] »

cgb223 wrote: post #23
motardo wrote: post #21

If Papa John's calls in thousands of fake pizza delivery orders to Donimos, are they doing research on response times and how many drivers their competitor has, or are they committing a crime?

That depends, did Domino's pay for each pizza in full or cancel them when they made it 90% of the way there?

[deleted]

Re: Uber Faces FBI Probe Over Program Targeting Rival Lyft

#35

Post by BinaryIdiot »

jamesmishra wrote: post #28
wbharding wrote: post #26

This probably explains why Uber charged me $2 last time I canceled a ride with them. They need a billing paradigm that prevents them from being taken advantage of by strategies like those that they employ against their competitors. Nevermind that the ride I canceled was 10+ minutes away, and was canceled immediately upon being booked. Advantage: Lyft.

Hey William, the reason Uber charges a cancellation fee is to compensate the driver for driving towards you. Without cancellation fees, drivers would have to eat the cost of whatever progress they made towards you. While the policy varies by city, typically an UberX or UberBLACK vehicle can be cancelled for free within 2 minutes. UberPOOL rides typically get billed cancellations immediately, because the canceling rid…

> Hey William, the reason Uber charges a cancellation fee is to compensate the driver for driving towards you.

Sorta? So one of the last times I cancelled a ride the driver was 8 minutes away which, not ideal, was fine. The problem was the driver was sitting at a restaurant. After 15 minutes passed he was still 8 minutes away but occasionally his car icon would move a little here and there (but staying at the restaurant).

I cancelled and it charged me a cancellation fee. Fortunately, after talking to a few friends of mine, it seems no matter why you get the cancellation fee (your fault or not) they will immediately refund it with credits if you complain.

Pretty aggravating experience, however.

Re: Uber Faces FBI Probe Over Program Targeting Rival Lyft

#36

Post by blackguardx »

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #18
whipoodle wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying I have a problem with this, but I'm not sure I'd agree with that characterization of FBI investigations.

Exactly. FBI investigations are not a "first point of contact" when a complaint has been made or someone has a question. Some law enforcement agency has already determined that there is something worth investigating, but they don't have all the tools required to investigate it fully, so it has escalated to the FBI. For law enforcement an FBI investigation is at least the equivalent in development terms of a priority…

You are partially incorrect. The FBI only investigates federal crimes. They act as the initial point of contact for those crimes all the time. In fact, you can go to their office in San Francisco (and others I'm sure) and file a complaint in person.

Re: Uber Faces FBI Probe Over Program Targeting Rival Lyft

#37

Post by mustacheemperor »

jamesmishra wrote: post #28
wbharding wrote: post #26

This probably explains why Uber charged me $2 last time I canceled a ride with them. They need a billing paradigm that prevents them from being taken advantage of by strategies like those that they employ against their competitors. Nevermind that the ride I canceled was 10+ minutes away, and was canceled immediately upon being booked. Advantage: Lyft.

Hey William, the reason Uber charges a cancellation fee is to compensate the driver for driving towards you. Without cancellation fees, drivers would have to eat the cost of whatever progress they made towards you. While the policy varies by city, typically an UberX or UberBLACK vehicle can be cancelled for free within 2 minutes. UberPOOL rides typically get billed cancellations immediately, because the canceling rid…

If Uber matches a driver 10 minutes away to me when there are available drivers 3 minutes away and I cancel, it seems like Uber's fault for any distance that 10 minute away driver traveled needlessly.

Re: Uber Faces FBI Probe Over Program Targeting Rival Lyft

#38

Post by dsacco »

motardo wrote: post #21

If Papa John's calls in thousands of fake pizza delivery orders to Donimos, are they doing research on response times and how many drivers their competitor has, or are they committing a crime?

The interesting thing about this example is that literally both of those specific companies (and other QSRs with online ordering) are actively researched by hedge funds this way. You can uncover a truly magnificent amount of data by doing this with, say, their mobile apps' private APIs.

I have no idea if they do it to each other though. I'd guess not.

To make this comment even more meta: I leave it as an exercise to the reader to figure out how you can use this technique on Uber to get competitive intelligence about, for example, how many total restaurants are currently signed up for UberEats, how many have ever signed up and the rate at which more are signing up in each region. The UberEats mobile APIs offer a way to do this, though individual restaurants use non-sequential UUIDs; do this every day, break it out into a timeseries, and compare it to GrubHub. Voila, you've turned their game against them.

Re: Uber Faces FBI Probe Over Program Targeting Rival Lyft

#39

Post by jamesmishra »

WaxProlix wrote: post #32
vkou wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without cancellation fees, drivers would have to eat the cost of whatever progress they made towards you. No, without it, Uber would have to eat the cost of whatever progress drivers made towards the rider. You tell the drivers to go somewhere (And punish them when they don't) - it's on Uber to pay them.

Hilarious that there's not even a consideration that glorious Uber eats the cost. It's just that the driver would have to - obviously, who else? At some point it stops being spin and becomes some kind of ideology.

Uber eats the cost every time you contact a support agent regarding your cancellation fee (assuming that your fee is indeed credited.) :)

Automatically taking responsibility for all cancellations--whether malicious or not--would be a vector for fraud and abuse.

Re: Uber Faces FBI Probe Over Program Targeting Rival Lyft

#40

Post by yeswecatan »

wbharding wrote: post #26

This probably explains why Uber charged me $2 last time I canceled a ride with them. They need a billing paradigm that prevents them from being taken advantage of by strategies like those that they employ against their competitors. Nevermind that the ride I canceled was 10+ minutes away, and was canceled immediately upon being booked. Advantage: Lyft.

I prefer Lyft by far, but they do the same thing. With Uber it seems like an automatic $2 fee, whereas with Lyft you have to cancel a couple of times.
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