Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack • Hacker News Board

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#221

Post by logfromblammo » Fri, Sep 08, 2017, 6:43 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #134

DenisM wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's small claims we're talking about, the defendant will not have a lawyer, right?

If you sue a corporation, who do you expect to defend it? It will be an attorney.

Perhaps it would be an officer of the corporation, named in one of the documents on file with the state's Secretary of State or department governing business records. If only the CEO is named, that is the person who has to appear.

I think states usually allow a regular employee of the corporation to appear, though.

Obviously, the small claims court procedures may vary according to jurisdiction, so you'll have to at least check your state's website before running down to the clerk with filings in hand.

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#222

Post by jstarfish » Fri, Sep 08, 2017, 6:44 PM UTC

ericd wrote: post #171

rayiner wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably for good reason. $500 per class member is an insanely high damages estimate. 99.9% of people will suffer zero damages because their identities will not be stolen. Even the ones who do have their identities stolen will likely be made whole by the credit card companies. The real damages here are going to be to the banks and credit card companies that will have to absorb the costs of all the fraud. As to the Ti…

Do you think that the FCRA punitive damages ($100-$1000 per person) might apply here?

Unlikely since it doesn't appear credit report-related data was leaked, only PII.

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#223

Post by dbatten » Fri, Sep 08, 2017, 6:44 PM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #201

hedora wrote: post #17

I'd love to see the $70B number pan out (though $500 per person is less than the damages, I think) -- Equifax is a $17B company, and would presumably stop existing if that happened. On the other hand, these things always settle out of court, and Equifax certainly won't settle the suit for more than they're worth. I said it elsewhere, but I think the right response is to opt out of the class, and sue for $1000 in smal…

But then you would have to show $1000 of actual personal damage, which I doubt few if any can, unless you're thinking Equifax will just settle these one after another. But they're just as capable of multiplying out how many of these will have to happen before the losses devastate them like you just did and at some point will actually show up and make you prove your case.

This is the genius of small-claims court. Equifax has to either send a representative (which would cost them more than $1000), or they lose by default. You don't actually have to prove anything.

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#224

Post by dbatten » Fri, Sep 08, 2017, 6:45 PM UTC

billh wrote: post #66

hedora wrote: post #17

I'd love to see the $70B number pan out (though $500 per person is less than the damages, I think) -- Equifax is a $17B company, and would presumably stop existing if that happened. On the other hand, these things always settle out of court, and Equifax certainly won't settle the suit for more than they're worth. I said it elsewhere, but I think the right response is to opt out of the class, and sue for $1000 in smal…

This class action will likely be settled in the same way the Ticketmaster case was settled ... with a coupon book good for 2 free credit reports.

You mean, with a coupon book good for 2 free credit reports... except with ridiculous fine print that will prevent 99% of people from using said coupons...

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#225

Post by hello_newman » Fri, Sep 08, 2017, 6:46 PM UTC

floatrock wrote: post #149

hello_newman wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how many times you have been to Small Claims Courts but there are multiple ways to enforce penalties in Small Claims; a judgment from a judge, a till-tap, levy their wages, place a levy on their bank account, placing a sheriff in their area of business (for a fee) and will stay there until he's collected all the funds, submit to a collections agency etc. Don't speak on something if you don't know what yo…

From 2011: http://business.time.com/2011/06/06/homeowner-forecloses-on-...

If an average person can get a giant mega-corporation to pay up through small claims then there is hope for all of us :)

the only difference is a giant corp can simply say "hey sorry we didn't pay earlier" when if a consumer tried to do that we would have more penalties placed upon us.

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#226

Post by Sangermaine » Fri, Sep 08, 2017, 6:46 PM UTC

dhimes wrote: post #194

Bluestrike2 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, class action suits aren't really about recovering damages for the class members. Or at least, not entirely. That's almost incidental. Rather, they're most often about leveraging a large class of injured parties--whose injuries are usually relatively minor on an individual basis--to force a change of behavior by adding up all of those small injuries. The cost of pursuing each claim individually would usual…

To be fair, class action suits aren't really about recovering damages for the class members. Or at least, not entirely. That was exactly what they were supposed to be about. The way it usually works out, however, is that the lawyers don't really negotiate on the same side of the table as the class and the class members end up with very little. The lawyers, however, get their fees. That's why everybody gets pissed abo…

>That was exactly what they were supposed to be about.

No, they really aren't, because as the parent says class actions are appropriate where the harm to each individual class member is small, but the small harm is spread out to many people. You as an individual were not harmed much, so you as an individual would not collect much even if you went it alone and recovered 100%. Litigation doesn't (generally) yield more than the harm you suffered.

Besides, if you want a lawyer to represent your interests alone, then you are free to not join the class and pursue your own individual case with the lawyer(s) of your choosing.

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#227

Post by lightbyte » Fri, Sep 08, 2017, 6:47 PM UTC

bodz wrote: post #190

A lawsuit seems appropriate, but I'm confused on their allegations. How can this lawsuit claim that Equifax "wasn't spending enough or doing enough to protect the information" when nobody, except for those within the company, know how much is spent or done to protect the information? Is there some public record I'm not aware of that says Equifax underspent on cybersecurity? Or is this lawsuit just a shot in the dark…

I'm not a lawyer, but is that not what discovery is for?

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#228

Post by flerchin » Fri, Sep 08, 2017, 6:48 PM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #202

thaumaturgy wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even the ones who do have their identities stolen will likely be made whole by the credit card companies. Are credit card companies now in the habit of reimbursing consumers for the considerable time and headache required to sort out fraudulent charges caused by insecure data storage practices in the credit reporting agencies that the credit card companies contract with? There are numerous reports of identity fraud…

What headache? Get with Capital One, Chase, Citi, or one of the other big names. They are very professional about replacement cards and zero hassle.

Replacement credit cards are not the issue. Whoever has this data has the complete dataset to open new credit cards in your name, buy a car in your name, get plastic surgery in your name, etc.

The hassle will be convincing all those companies that you do not in fact owe them thousands, and there is no automatic protections for these types of harms.

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#229

Post by Dowwie » Fri, Sep 08, 2017, 6:48 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #196

pc86 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was not aware the citizenship of the hackers had any bearing on Equifax's liability in this case.

If it's a foreign government it's considered and "act of god", (I.e. Something out of their control) which releases a lot of liability.

Force Majeure

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#230

Post by logfromblammo » Fri, Sep 08, 2017, 6:50 PM UTC

i_cant_speel wrote: post #195

hueving wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make you a user. It just means the bank gave them your info.

After you made the choice to allow them to.

The non-negotiable choice between allowing them to and being denied service entirely.