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Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

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Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#181

Post by jlarocco »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #112
rayiner wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably for good reason. $500 per class member is an insanely high damages estimate. 99.9% of people will suffer zero damages because their identities will not be stolen. Even the ones who do have their identities stolen will likely be made whole by the credit card companies. The real damages here are going to be to the banks and credit card companies that will have to absorb the costs of all the fraud. As to the Ti…

> Even the ones who do have their identities stolen will likely be made whole by the credit card companies. Are credit card companies now in the habit of reimbursing consumers for the considerable time and headache required to sort out fraudulent charges caused by insecure data storage practices in the credit reporting agencies that the credit card companies contract with? There are numerous reports of identity fraud…

> Are credit card companies now in the habit of reimbursing consumers for the considerable time and headache required to sort out fraudulent charges caused by insecure data storage practices in the credit reporting agencies that the credit card companies contract with?

It's not a "habit", it's the law. It doesn't matter how the fraudulent charges came to be. If a person disputes a charge and has evidence to show it's fraudulent, then by law the credit card company has to investigate, and deal with it.

It also makes business sense. CC companies make a ton of money with legal transactions, and an anti-consumer, pro-fraud reputation would cost them customers.

> There are numerous reports of identity fraud causing a significant amount of trouble for the consumers involved, and as far as I know, not a one of them has ever received a letter beginning, "We're sorry for the time and trouble you went through to clear this up", with an attached check.

Why would the bank or credit card company send a check? Presumably they're not the one who committed the crime, so why should they cover the damages?

I've had my identity stolen, and it was a PITA to clear up, but the bank and credit companies were reasonable about it, IMO. In a case like this, where it's easy to point at the Equifax breach and say, "See? This is how they got my info.", it's probably even easier to clear up, though I'm sure it's still a hassle.

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#182

Post by hueving »

Bluestrike2 wrote: post #121
billh wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This class action will likely be settled in the same way the Ticketmaster case was settled ... with a coupon book good for 2 free credit reports.

To be fair, class action suits aren't really about recovering damages for the class members. Or at least, not entirely. That's almost incidental. Rather, they're most often about leveraging a large class of injured parties--whose injuries are usually relatively minor on an individual basis--to force a change of behavior by adding up all of those small injuries. The cost of pursuing each claim individually would usual…

>And while it's almost inevitable that discussions about class action suits will involve complaints about the lawyers fees, that's not really fair.

Of course it's fair. It's not like the members of the class get to shop around for cheaper lawyers. The class gets shit either way, they just have to decide if they hate the company more than the lawyers that charge the obscene percentages. And you can't make any kind of cost argument because a billion dollar case isn't anymore complex than a million dollar case. The whole point of it being a class is that it impacted everyone the same so the dollar figures don't change the complexity.

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#183

Post by pc86 »

gbarc888 wrote: post #117
Dowwie wrote: post #97

Consider the possibility that the hackers were agents of a sovereign power, such as one who has been hurt by economic sanctions and has a history of cyber warfare. This state could decide to respond to US economic aggression by using the compromised information of hundreds of millions of Americans to engage in fraudulent activity. This event is leading me to about how social security numbers can no longer serve the r…

Undoubtedly Equifax will claim that the hackers were agents of a sovereign power, to escape liability. Regardless, they admitted on their own web page that there was a flaw in their web application. Biometrics would be a terrible idea. Mass surveillance, anyone?

I was not aware the citizenship of the hackers had any bearing on Equifax's liability in this case.

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#184

Post by hueving »

flatline wrote: post #164
eduren wrote: post #9

>In the complaint filed in Portland, Ore., federal court, users alleged Equifax was negligent in failing to protect consumer data, choosing to save money instead of spending on technical safeguards that could have stopped the attack. Doesn't "users" imply that we had a choice in the matter? As if we're Equifax's customers? I feel more like we're victims in this case.

If you've ever opened a bank account or a line of credit you signed something to the effect that you agreed to let your institution share your data with these agencies.

That doesn't make you a user. It just means the bank gave them your info.

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#185

Post by bojackstorkman »

kbullaughey wrote: post #118

Assuming an approximately Bernoulli outcome from Equifax’s perspective, the stock market thinks there’s only a 13% chance they’ll be shuttered by this negligence.

This is an interesting point. I'm not great with math, but I'd love if you could share how you calculated that?

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#186

Post by fleitz »

rayiner wrote: post #96
billh wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This class action will likely be settled in the same way the Ticketmaster case was settled ... with a coupon book good for 2 free credit reports.

Probably for good reason. $500 per class member is an insanely high damages estimate. 99.9% of people will suffer zero damages because their identities will not be stolen. Even the ones who do have their identities stolen will likely be made whole by the credit card companies. The real damages here are going to be to the banks and credit card companies that will have to absorb the costs of all the fraud. As to the Ti…

There was a class action suit because a company was marking up the cost of the goods / services they were selling? Isn't this just called business?

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#187

Post by mjn »

hcurtiss wrote: post #98
runesoerensen wrote: post #69

NYS Attorney General on the arbitration/rights waiver clause: "This language is unacceptable and unenforceable. My staff has already contacted @Equifax to demand that they remove it." https://twitter.com/AGSchneiderman/status/906195350532304896 Also: "I am launching a formal investigation into the #Equifax breach. Today, I sent a letter to @Equifax seeking additional information." https://twitter.com/AGSchneiderman/s…

Yeah, I'm not sure the arbitration language is applicable here anyway. The claims would arise from Experian's failure to secure their data, not from use of the "Products" offered by TrustedID (namely, the website allowing me to check) or the subject matter of the Terms of Use agreement.

Their FAQ [1] now appears to explicitly say so: that the class-action waiver and arbitration agreement only apply to disputes over the credit-monitoring product itself, not over the original breach. I don't know if they have some way to still weasel out of that, but publishing that clarification on their website seems like it'd make it harder?

Do the TrustedID Terms of Use limit my options related to the cyber security incident?

The arbitration clause and class action wavier included in the TrustedID Premier Terms of Use applies to the free credit file monitoring and identity theft protection products, and not the cybersecurity incident.

[1] https://www.equifaxsecurity2017.com/frequently-asked-questio...

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#188

Post by ethanwillis »

leesalminen wrote: post #41
mlrtime wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could we create a service that automates most of the work required to sue in SCC?

I'd pay $20 for a service that can walk me through what to do/say, templates legal forms, etc. I would absolutely take the time to sue Equifax in small claims court.

I will also crowdfund taking down EQ.

Give me a service and I'm ready to pay.

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#189

Post by apayan »

pc86 wrote: post #134
DenisM wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's small claims we're talking about, the defendant will not have a lawyer, right?

If you sue a corporation, who do you expect to defend it? It will be an attorney.

I don't know about other states, but in California if you sue a corporation in small claims court, they can NOT send an attorney:

Corporation or other legal entity — A corporation or other legal entity (that is not a natural person) can be represented by a regular employee, an officer, or a director; a partnership can be represented by a partner or regular employee of the partnership. The representative may not be an attorney or person whose only job is to represent the party in small claims court. An attorney may appear to represent a law firms as long as that attorney is a general partner of the law firm or is an officer of the corporation. However, in both instances, all the other members of the partnership and all the other officers of the corporations have to be attorneys as well.[1]

[1] http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/small_claims/basic_info.s...

Re: Equifax Faces Multibillion-Dollar Lawsuit Over Hack

#190

Post by bodz »

A lawsuit seems appropriate, but I'm confused on their allegations. How can this lawsuit claim that Equifax "wasn't spending enough or doing enough to protect the information" when nobody, except for those within the company, know how much is spent or done to protect the information?

Is there some public record I'm not aware of that says Equifax underspent on cybersecurity? Or is this lawsuit just a shot in the dark hoping to hit a target?

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the allegation is true, but AFAIK there's no way these individuals actually have proof of it, and it seems like a flaw in our legal system that people are allowed to make allegations like this without any type of proof.

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