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Coding Boot Camps Get the Boot: Why the Industry Is Shutting Down

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Re: Coding Boot Camps Get the Boot: Why the Industry Is Shutting Down

#31

Post by Jemmeh »

sotojuan wrote: post #8

Bootcamps are just too short. I think the sweet spot for a coursework in programming is a year to two years. That's essentially how long my university degree was if you remove the non-CS required classes.

I get where you're coming from but I think you can shorten it to closer to 6 months provided A) The person is already fairly good at generally using a computer, which is more common these days and B) They are working mad hours. A lot of the boot camps are basically morning to night and that cuts down on time a lot.

The ones that are only a month long...well it's a nice introduction to coding I suppose, but I can't see it as much more than that. There's definitely a "too short" but it depends on a lot of factors as for where that line will be.

Re: Coding Boot Camps Get the Boot: Why the Industry Is Shutting Down

#32

Post by vonmoltke »

randomdrake wrote: post #6

I'm glad they're going away. > While coding boot camps had many course listings on JavaScript, Ruby, and web development, they had none that covered product management, wireframing, cloud computing, DevOps, or Agile methodologies. In other words, they don’t teach students the other important entrepreneurial tech skills. This makes sense seeing how their focus is coding. But as I stated in my last article, many recrui…

> No, recruiters all over the world are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars a year because they can't find any competent programmers anymore.

They pay it because they can't identify and source competent programmers, not because there aren't enough. Thus, when they (think they) find one they pay through the nose for it.

Re: Coding Boot Camps Get the Boot: Why the Industry Is Shutting Down

#34

Post by aecorredor »

"While coding boot camps had many course listings on JavaScript, Ruby, and web development, they had none that covered product management, wireframing, cloud computing, DevOps, or Agile methodologies"

I have a 4 year computer science degree and I didn't learn any of the listed topics either, so I'm not sure if the article is implying that other institutions do prepare new grads for these topics. The main advantage I see from bootcamps is that you basically code intensely for 4 months, learn the most important stuff to be productive (at least in small scale) right away, and then you're able to tackle more in depth topics by yourself.

Re: Coding Boot Camps Get the Boot: Why the Industry Is Shutting Down

#35

Post by sotojuan »

Jemmeh wrote: post #31
sotojuan wrote: post #8

Bootcamps are just too short. I think the sweet spot for a coursework in programming is a year to two years. That's essentially how long my university degree was if you remove the non-CS required classes.

I get where you're coming from but I think you can shorten it to closer to 6 months provided A) The person is already fairly good at generally using a computer, which is more common these days and B) They are working mad hours. A lot of the boot camps are basically morning to night and that cuts down on time a lot. The ones that are only a month long...well it's a nice introduction to coding I suppose, but I can't se…

I could see six months work - it'd just have to be intensive and under very good teachers (hard to find!).

Re: Coding Boot Camps Get the Boot: Why the Industry Is Shutting Down

#36

Post by Jemmeh »

Sivart13 wrote: post #9

I think it's a big leap from "two large bootcamps have closed" to "the bootcamp industry is shutting down". Like anything else, there was a big race to capture the market once Dev Bootcamp proved it could work, and now the market is correcting itself. No reason to think bootcamps are going to stop existing altogether.

Exactly. There's good bootcamps and bad bootcamps, of course some will shut down. What other industry would cause this headline?

A grocery store down the street from me closed, I guess supermarkets are all dying!

Re: Coding Boot Camps Get the Boot: Why the Industry Is Shutting Down

#37

Post by sotojuan »

eeZah7Ux wrote: post #19
sotojuan wrote: post #8

Bootcamps are just too short. I think the sweet spot for a coursework in programming is a year to two years. That's essentially how long my university degree was if you remove the non-CS required classes.

More like 5 if people want to use the term "engineer" on their CV.

Maybe in other countries, but in the US a programmer or software engineer is not bound by any regulations on the title "engineer".

Many top computer science programs are not in their university's engineering department and many top universities are not ABET-certified.

Re: Coding Boot Camps Get the Boot: Why the Industry Is Shutting Down

#38

Post by geebee »

I think that bootcamps actually can work well for people who already have highly honed analytical and logical reasoning skills, but for whatever reason haven't gotten involved in programming. For instance, a linguistics or philosophy major, or maybe a pure math major, who hasn't done any programming. For example, in a math class on graph theory, we essentially did DFS and BFS, but through proof, not through code.

I think one of the reasons bootcamps may be closing is there just aren't enough people like this to train. 6 weeks can do amazing things for people who come in with years of intense analytical training, but it's not a curriculum that can create that core skill in 6 weeks - that takes years - actually, decades.

Re: Coding Boot Camps Get the Boot: Why the Industry Is Shutting Down

#39

Post by jonny_eh »

aecorredor wrote: post #34

"While coding boot camps had many course listings on JavaScript, Ruby, and web development, they had none that covered product management, wireframing, cloud computing, DevOps, or Agile methodologies" I have a 4 year computer science degree and I didn't learn any of the listed topics either, so I'm not sure if the article is implying that other institutions do prepare new grads for these topics. The main advantage I…

Exactly. They're failing not due to curriculum, but the business model and cash flow.

Re: Coding Boot Camps Get the Boot: Why the Industry Is Shutting Down

#40

Post by sotojuan »

randomdrake wrote: post #6

I'm glad they're going away. > While coding boot camps had many course listings on JavaScript, Ruby, and web development, they had none that covered product management, wireframing, cloud computing, DevOps, or Agile methodologies. In other words, they don’t teach students the other important entrepreneurial tech skills. This makes sense seeing how their focus is coding. But as I stated in my last article, many recrui…

Bootcamps are not going away, there just won't be so many of them any more. As another poster said, the market is correcting itself.
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