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EasyDNS refuses to host The DailyStormer domain

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Re: EasyDNS refuses to host The DailyStormer domain

#61

Post by problems »

IronWolve wrote: post #35

With companies now coming up with exceptions to their free speech ideology, whats the technical solution? Seems the only place left for these unwanted groups, the dark web of tor. The thing that interests me is technical issues of a site nobody wants to host. Deny them DNS, Deny them DDOS protection, Deny them hosting, whats left?

They've been using onion domains to provide service while their clearnet site is unavailable - so the technical solutions do indeed exist. They're just harder to use.

Of course, the other option is to find someone who does want to host you or start your own. They've done decently, bulletproof.al has been willing to provide them domains, bitmitigate is providing their DDoS protection, etc.

As others in this thread have mentioned, there's a tendency for many entrepreneurial types to gravitate towards services that are very much hands-off, BitMitigate and Bulletproof made a name for themselves here and I'll certainly give them a shot if I'm hosting anything where users can post comments or I'm posting things that are remotely controversial. There's value in knowing your site won't go down even if the worst kind of controversy is stirred.

Re: EasyDNS refuses to host The DailyStormer domain

#62

Post by sporkenfang »

bmelton wrote: post #3

Somewhat dichotomously, I agree with every position mark takes in the linked post, but at the same time, I'm quietly waiting to see where Daily Stormer ends up landing, so that I can start treating them as the 'real' bastions of free speech, and very likely start throwing them my business. It isn't because I'm sympathetic to the nazis in this scenario, but if you're trying to position yourself as "the free speech reg…

So the thing about free speech is https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/first_amendment the first amendment means the government shouldn't be able to suppress what you say. That's all. Corporations aren't the government and shouldn't be held to the same standards.

Re: EasyDNS refuses to host The DailyStormer domain

#63

Post by kbenson »

bmelton wrote: post #3

Somewhat dichotomously, I agree with every position mark takes in the linked post, but at the same time, I'm quietly waiting to see where Daily Stormer ends up landing, so that I can start treating them as the 'real' bastions of free speech, and very likely start throwing them my business. It isn't because I'm sympathetic to the nazis in this scenario, but if you're trying to position yourself as "the free speech reg…

> I'm quietly waiting to see where Daily Stormer ends up landing, so that I can start treating them as the 'real' bastions of free speech, and very likely start throwing them my business.

Until I was nearly finished with the second paragraph, I thought you were referring to Daily Stormer as the 'real' bastion of free speech you wanted to throw your bisiness at. That sentence could probably be clarified if that's not your intent.

As to the point, I agree that we'll articulated and followed policies would be beneficial for all, but I feel for these businesses as well. They are aware that regardless of how sane their policy or how much they profess to be upholding free speech, they will be called out as Nazi sympathizers and angry mobs will gather. People are not at their most rational currently, and any company hosting them might be affecting the future of their company and possibly even the wellbeing of their employees (which is ironic and sad if true, given the organization at the heart of this).

Re: EasyDNS refuses to host The DailyStormer domain

#64

Post by baby »

archagon wrote: post #50
briholt wrote: post #43

Another cowardly "free speech but..." Either you support free speech (including Nazis or whatever today's boogeyman is) or you don't support free speech at all. Claiming you support free speech only when you like the speech is abjectly idiotic. When you start blocking people from using your service for their speech, it's time to stop calling yourself the "free speech registrar."

Why does it have to be either/or? Society does not operate by strictly logical principles. I see no problem with "mostly free speech, except for extremists".

Conpletely agree. Most of the arguments I see on the subject are "slippery slope" arguments tbat imo end up doing more bad than good. Freedom of speech should not exist for people who do not want freedom of speech (e.g. nazis). It's similar To your liberty ends where the liberty of others begins.

Re: EasyDNS refuses to host The DailyStormer domain

#65

Post by pnathan »

bmelton wrote: post #3

Somewhat dichotomously, I agree with every position mark takes in the linked post, but at the same time, I'm quietly waiting to see where Daily Stormer ends up landing, so that I can start treating them as the 'real' bastions of free speech, and very likely start throwing them my business. It isn't because I'm sympathetic to the nazis in this scenario, but if you're trying to position yourself as "the free speech reg…

There's a distinction between the government repressing speech and private businesses refusing to give the speech-maker a platform.

Further, certain kinds of speech have never been considered protected: "fighting words", certain classes of harassment, fomenting seditious, the famous "fire!" in a crowded theater.

Note, too, it's easy to draw a line around advocating for racial supremacy and genocide without stepping onto the famous slippery slope.

Anyway. "free speech" is not a uniform perfect right that applies maximally in all situations.

Re: EasyDNS refuses to host The DailyStormer domain

#66

Post by hsod »

Do Nazis have a right to running water, electricity, fire department services, access to medical care, and police protection? Yes.

Do Nazis have a right to have their op-eds published in the New York Times? No.

Where does DNS lie on this continuum? It feels pretty infrastructure-y to me. Perhaps there should be a "public option" for DNS.

Re: EasyDNS refuses to host The DailyStormer domain

#67

Post by mrguyorama »

ceejayoz wrote: post #45
IronWolve wrote: post #35

With companies now coming up with exceptions to their free speech ideology, whats the technical solution? Seems the only place left for these unwanted groups, the dark web of tor. The thing that interests me is technical issues of a site nobody wants to host. Deny them DNS, Deny them DDOS protection, Deny them hosting, whats left?

> Deny them DNS, Deny them DDOS protection, Deny them hosting, whats left? I mean, not being a neo-Nazi is an option...

The fear that most Free Speech absolutists have is that tomorrow it will be: "I mean, not being a socialist|capitalist|religious individual is an option..."

From an Ideals perspective, its a valid and valiant fear, but I don't understand the absolutist position. Legitimate verbal threats are still allowed under absolute free speech, but they obviously produce harm. Should we really allow anyone to threaten the life or livelihood of another human being without repercussion?

Absolutism in the other direction is just as dystopian as well. Follow the exact line of populist opinion or else.

So "Free speech on principal" people, where does it end? What ISN'T "Free Speech" to you?

Re: EasyDNS refuses to host The DailyStormer domain

#68

Post by elevensies »

patrickmay wrote: post #8

In an earlier post ( https://www.easydns.com/blog/2017/09/06/why-does-easydns-pro... ) supporting free expression, EasyDNS says that they will only refuse service to sites that advocate or encourage "physical violence or harm toward an identifiable minority." I have never been to the DailyStormer site, so I don't know if they meet that criteria. If they don't, EasyDNS, while well within their rights, is not living up…

It is kind of a slippery standard (I think it is reasonable, just hard to draw a precise line in the sand.) I.e somewhere along the continuum of

down-with-fascists-and-that-sort-of-thing .com

ban-all-fascists-from-rhode-island .com

fascists-deserved-to-be-punched .com

lets-attack-all-fascists-in-rhode-island .com

list-of-rhode-island-fascists-to-attack-tonight .com

As it escalates in intent of violence and specificity, it becomes more of an issue for any service provider. And you can imagine imagine replacing "fascists" with different groups might get a stronger response earlier, i.e. "animal hurting medical researchers", "illegal aliens", "zionists", "catholics", and so on. But by the time you get to advocating specific illegal actions against specific people, I think you're pretty certain to get cut off.

I don't know if this is true for the daily stormer, but I think generally troll-right groups are going to keep getting cut off because they are doing targeted online harassment. When there are specific victims and things are clearly being coordinated on a certain site that gives service providers a strong motive to cut them off. Versus if someone is publishing some kind of racist newsletter that is only being seen by other racists no one is really going to know enough about that has a motive to cut them off.

Re: EasyDNS refuses to host The DailyStormer domain

#69

Post by tyleraldrich »

regularhackerer wrote: post #42
ainiriand wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Random page: https://web.archive.org/web/20170516210944/https://www.daily... Asking people to be beaten up.

I don't want to read whatever that is too closely but looks like some random blog post where some idiot claims 'antifa' or 'right wing protestors' located at some rally 'deserve to be beaten up'. You may find there are other blogging platforms out there with actual requests for violence, often justified with a tagline 'Punch a nazi!'.

The OP asked if the daily stormer hosted content calling for physical violence and evidence was given. I'm sure plenty of other blogging platforms call for physical violence, whats the point? Are they EasyDNS customers? If they are, you should probably let EasyDNS know. If not, your comment is entirely worthless.

Re: EasyDNS refuses to host The DailyStormer domain

#70

Post by burkaman »

bmelton wrote: post #3

Somewhat dichotomously, I agree with every position mark takes in the linked post, but at the same time, I'm quietly waiting to see where Daily Stormer ends up landing, so that I can start treating them as the 'real' bastions of free speech, and very likely start throwing them my business. It isn't because I'm sympathetic to the nazis in this scenario, but if you're trying to position yourself as "the free speech reg…

I mean, it should give you pause. That's how civil society functions. You should care how your behavior affects other people, and you should be able to respond to immoral behavior without restricting yourself to a rigid core set of principles.

The reason the first amendment is so restrained is that the government is too powerful to be trusted with any more power. But people aren't, in fact they're expected to pick up the slack where the government doesn't have authority.

I don't want to live in a world where people feel comfortable doing whatever they want as long as it's legal.

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