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Google is apparently ready to buy HTC

cnbc.com

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Re: Google is apparently ready to buy HTC

#41

Post by 0xFFC »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #34
ditn wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did they botch it? Moto was a strategic acquisition for patents; Google never intended to keep the business.

If that was the intention from the beginning they would have divested the smartphone business immediately rather than doing it 2.5 years later. It's likely and possible that the patents were the primary purpose for the acquisition. But they put too much money & effort into the handset business to suggest that they never intended to make a go of it.

> 2.5 years later

In a scale that big, "2.5 years later" counts as immediate.

Re: Google is apparently ready to buy HTC

#42

Post by lucozade »

maheart wrote: post #37

I think this is Google shooting itself in the foot. TechAltar on YouTube provides a very good explanation of why Samsung (and probably other phone manufacturers) are cautious of Android[1]. This is especially true when Google acts as a hardware phone manufacturer. The summary of the argument (from memory) is that Google provides Android to hardware phone manufacturers, and it doesn't compete with them in the hardware…

> I think this is Google shooting itself in the foot.

Only if it fails. I'm sure this is making Android phone manufacturers nervous but what are their options? Essentially, Samsung would need to revive its mobile OS platform and build a competing ecosystem. That's a huge gamble that's already failed multiple times.

It strikes me that it's more likely that they'll take the same dichotomous approach as they do with selling chips to Apple. My guess is that Google are assuming the same.

Re: Google is apparently ready to buy HTC

#43

Post by simonh »

petra wrote: post #38
bryanlarsen wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they've done it before, they'll have learned from their mistakes and will attempt to avoid repeating them. For example, they put in place a firewall to ensure that Motorola wouldn't have any advantages over other Android manufacturers. I don't expect them to do that again. That being said, major acquisitions are hard and I expect it to fail once again. But they'll mostly make different mistakes rather than th…

Dropping the Android Firewall ? if Google does, would any future partners trust it and collaborate with it ? and without that, many of Google's efforts, including it's moonshot, will have much lower chance of sucsess. Would they risk that ?

Where else would the Android handset makers go, Microsoft?

Actually that sounds good, we could do with a third viable handset OS, but that's a digression and at this point a bit of a fantasy. They have nowhere else to go.

Back in the early days of iOS and Android the consensus seemed to be that the smartphone OSes were pretty much done. To compete with iOS all you had to do was match it's features, or catch up, and once you had it was pretty much all over. Since then Apple and Google have constantly found compelling new features for the OSes almost every year. Apple is sinking billions into the development of iOS, just look at what they're doing just in the area of health[1], and there is clear blue water in terms of quality and features[2] between it and Android, and that gap is increasing.

Google makes most of it's money in mobile off the iOS platform, yet is investing hugely in Android development and making a pittance out of it. Not only is that unsustainable, but if they really want to compete with Apple they need to dramatically increase their investment in Android. They only way they can justify doing that is to actually start making significant revenue off Android. The only way to do that is to sell their own handsets, differentiate them from competing Android handset vendors, command a decent profit margin and grab significant market share.

[1] https://www.cultofmac.com/316559/abc-news-goes-inside-apples...

[2] Super robust and secure XPC; Superior power management; Custom development tools, languages and hardware-software integration with things like Metal and the motion co-processor; High quality health and fitness tracking; VRKit; Highly consistent calibration of sensors between devices, vital for precision applications like VR; All this is arguable in the details, sure, but the fact that Apple is spending hugely on this backed by blockbuster revenues isn't and Google can't realistically match that just for the heck of it. They need a revenue stream to back it up.

Re: Google is apparently ready to buy HTC

#44

Post by simonh »

maheart wrote: post #37

I think this is Google shooting itself in the foot. TechAltar on YouTube provides a very good explanation of why Samsung (and probably other phone manufacturers) are cautious of Android[1]. This is especially true when Google acts as a hardware phone manufacturer. The summary of the argument (from memory) is that Google provides Android to hardware phone manufacturers, and it doesn't compete with them in the hardware…

Google stands to lose nothing of value whatsoever from pissing off the Android handset makers. Especially since they've made no bones at all about pissing off Google the second they could gain even the slightest sliver of a competitive or revenue advantage from doing so. Frankly Google owes them zilch. In fact having a viable handset business of their own might even give Google more leverage on the licensees. Want these premium features for your phones too? Talk to us, what do you have to offer?

Re: Google is apparently ready to buy HTC

#45

Post by simonh »

jpkeisala wrote: post #4

Why do they want to buy HTC? Are there some significant patents they are holding?

HTCs stock price has tanked in the last 5 years. They laid off 15% of their employees last year. Finally their market cap is about even with their cash in the bank so buying them would be essentially free. Finally, they make the Pixel so Google has worked very closely with them recently.

Re: Google is apparently ready to buy HTC

#46

Post by ocdtrekkie »

ccozan wrote: post #18
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this purchase happens, it will almost certainly not include Vive, from my understanding. Reports today said mobile phone business only. And Vive is being considered for selloff as a separate company.

I'd say that Google is not interested in the phone business. After all, they did have Motorola Mobility [1]. As other said, they are after the VR stuff, and any sale will contain that bit. They will let phones run a bit, then either sell it at a bargain to other manufacturer ( Lenovo? ) or let it slowly ( or abruptly) die. [1] the other Motorola is doing just fine. https://www.motorolasolutions.com/

But what you are saying is the complete opposite of what the rumor is. Since its explicitly about their mobile phone business.

Also, note that now they have the Pixel instead of the Nexus line, which is supposedly in house designed by currently isn't.

Re: Google is apparently ready to buy HTC

#47

Post by ocdtrekkie »

aandrieiev wrote: post #17
flukus wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could be a coincidence, but they got serious about Tizen a few weeks afterward.

Right, but did it lead to taking Tizen to the level it could replace Android? What I like about Samsung is that they do realize and accept that the software is not their forte. Hence Android.

Samsung is keeping Tizen about where Microsoft seems keeps Windows Mobile right now: Keeping it more or less up to date in case the landscape changes and they have an opportunity again.

Google deciding to change something is one of Samsung's biggest corporate risks since they're so dependent on them with the phone business.

Re: Google is apparently ready to buy HTC

#48

Post by bryanlarsen »

simonh wrote: post #43
petra wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dropping the Android Firewall ? if Google does, would any future partners trust it and collaborate with it ? and without that, many of Google's efforts, including it's moonshot, will have much lower chance of sucsess. Would they risk that ?

Where else would the Android handset makers go, Microsoft? Actually that sounds good, we could do with a third viable handset OS, but that's a digression and at this point a bit of a fantasy. They have nowhere else to go. Back in the early days of iOS and Android the consensus seemed to be that the smartphone OSes were pretty much done. To compete with iOS all you had to do was match it's features, or catch up, and o…

Google has tens of billions a year in revenue from Android. Only in comparison to Apple revenue or Google's advertising business can that be called a pittance. :)

Re: Google is apparently ready to buy HTC

#49

Post by glenstein »

mcrae wrote: post #28
ulfw wrote: post #24

They botched the Motorola acquisition and couldn’t find a way to integrate them in their mobile efforts even though both were American companies (with Moto having a significant presence right across from GOOG in the Valley). So now doing it all over again, with a Taiwan-based company is going to work better because...?

Was it botched? I'm not sure the intention was to ever run Motorola as a going concern. After selling the cable/home biz, cash on hand, deferred taxes, and selling the phone biz to Lenovo, they lost just $3.5B. But they kept all of the patents, defending Android from legal assaults into the future. Pretty good deal IMO.

Right, and they put out a generation of near-stock Android phones with the Moto E/G/X line that did a great job putting Android in as many hands as possible and setting the standard for low and mid range phones.

As they were doing that I remember thinking "these phones don't make much sense for Motorola in terms of generating a profit, but they make perfect sense for Google in terms of blanketing the world with Android phones."

I'd say Google was quite happy with what they were able to do while they had Motorola.

Re: Google is apparently ready to buy HTC

#50

Post by bmcusick »

This can't be about direct revenue. We all know that Android handset business is barely profitable. Even Samsung makes a fraction of what Apple does, and the rest are rounding errors.

I expect this is Google trying to prevent the Android market from becoming a Samsung monopsony. They're half the market, and everyone else is less than 5% (except Hauwei, which is 6%). Given the profits available, I bet half of these businesses are in danger of being shut down every year.

Another thought is that Apple has a huge advantage in that they make really low-level investments in hardware, especially the camera and security devices. Google would probably be willing to make those investments and license them to the other OEMs, but to really be good at it they'll need to be a hardware company themselves.

Lastly, and I think this is less likely, it's just my inner fanboy talking, but I hope Google makes really good phones and makes them Project Fi exclusives. If they can create an anchor phone that draws people to Google Fi, then Google has more leverage to negotiate lower prices from the wireless companies. Anything that take Verizon down a couple pegs is OK by me.

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