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Delta Goes Big, Then Goes Home

flightradar24.com

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Re: Delta Goes Big, Then Goes Home

#91

Post by narvind »

omegant wrote: post #89

Commercial pilot here, currently flying transatlantic routes. I avoided Irma last week while flying to Buenos Aires (it was not this big yet). I have partners in San Juan at this moment, bunkered in the hotel. We see this as a crazy move, very well executed, but too risky for the plane itself (not so much for the crew). Let me explain, the metar and tafors (the airport meteorological reports we use) during the flight…

Not sure if there were really any passengers disembarking in San Juan. I would guess that it was pretty much an empty flight flying in.

What a heroic effort! Salute to the entire team!

Re: Delta Goes Big, Then Goes Home

#92

Post by what_ever »

narvind wrote: post #91
omegant wrote: post #89

Commercial pilot here, currently flying transatlantic routes. I avoided Irma last week while flying to Buenos Aires (it was not this big yet). I have partners in San Juan at this moment, bunkered in the hotel. We see this as a crazy move, very well executed, but too risky for the plane itself (not so much for the crew). Let me explain, the metar and tafors (the airport meteorological reports we use) during the flight…

Not sure if there were really any passengers disembarking in San Juan. I would guess that it was pretty much an empty flight flying in. What a heroic effort! Salute to the entire team!

There were 30 people on the flight to San Juan.

Re: Delta Goes Big, Then Goes Home

#93

Post by lucb1e »

omegant wrote: post #89

Commercial pilot here, currently flying transatlantic routes. I avoided Irma last week while flying to Buenos Aires (it was not this big yet). I have partners in San Juan at this moment, bunkered in the hotel. We see this as a crazy move, very well executed, but too risky for the plane itself (not so much for the crew). Let me explain, the metar and tafors (the airport meteorological reports we use) during the flight…

Thank you for the insightful explanation!

Re: Delta Goes Big, Then Goes Home

#94

Post by SeoxyS »

Two points:

1) Hurricanes are actually harmless to planes. The only part of the flight that includes any danger is landing, due to wind and low visibility. But flying at cruising altitude or even through the storm is fairly harmless, as most winds are horizontal and nothing out of the ordinary for a plane. Keep in mind that the NOAA regularly flies commercial jets (such as a Gulfstream V) into hurricanes. Also keep in mind that never in the history of aviation has a plane been brought down by a cyclone. Thunderstorms, on the other hand, are much more dangerous. The main difference is that in a cyclone, air moves horizontally, while in a thunderstorm it moves vertically in bursts, which is much more difficult to navigate.

2) From what I've heard, this was not a commercial flight but a flight mainly aimed at evacuating non-rev airline employees. The main issue with doing this flight for regular passengers would be fear and discomfort due to turbulence. Airline employees on the other hand are used to flying, know that turbulence is harmless, and would rather just get home.

Re: Delta Goes Big, Then Goes Home

#95

Post by jandrese »

ceejayoz wrote: post #70
jandrese wrote: post #61

The only disappointment for me is that they flew a relatively modest 737 down there. If you're going to make a heroic flight like this do it in an A380 or a 747 and load up as many people as you can to get them out of dodge. I guess shuffling a big plane like that at the last minute is probably not feasible since they have their own routes to service. An evac flight could even go full on quick load. No checked bags,…

An A380 or 747 is significantly less nimble than a 737, and would take a lot longer to unload and load back up. The flight in question did a turnaround in 51 minutes, including taxing time, which is extremely quick.

It is, but I suspect you can significantly speed up loading if you skip all of the bullshit that makes loading take forever.

No people loaded down with multiple huge carryons, no checked luggage, no searching for your assigned seat, no zone loading bullshit, just everybody walks on the plane and sits down in the first available seats they find leaving no empty seats. Everybody lined up at the door ready to go the minute the plane is empty. You could probably have the whole plane loaded before it finished refueling.

Re: Delta Goes Big, Then Goes Home

#96

Post by bharath28 »

throwaway613834 wrote: post #40
treyfitty wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't quite follow what you're trying to say. My comment makes no suggestion of any coincidences, nor mention any timing to use calm air effectively. Yes, timing calm air effectively requires calculation. I'm at a loss when deciphering how that relates to what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is, you're saying this was a case of the airline trying to get out as many people as they could, without much regard for the risk and costs. But from what I see, they seemed to have optimized for the risk and the cost extremely well, to the point where it made perfect sense to do what they did, both business wise and humanitarian. Meaning those seem contradictory. (In no way am I playing down what the…

There is such a thing as being heroic & not stupid.

Re: Delta Goes Big, Then Goes Home

#97

Post by jmcdiesel »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #47
ars wrote: post #32

I'm wondering about the ground crew willing to stay in the airport to help this flight get going - and then having to get to a shelter in the middle of a hurricane.

While I'm not familiar with SJU, my guess is an airport terminal is likely one of the more sturdy buildings around, and is likely to have some pretty robust structures you can take shelter in. Most commercial buildings are sturdier than the average house, and I'd rather be at an airport than at home in a storm that levels buildings.

I dont think the fear is sheltering... Most of those islands have shelter, its not like hurricanes are a rare event for them.

However, its the destruction and risk that it could be WEEKS before help comes if infrastructure is completely destroyed... and an island with limited resources means that the people still on the island will (compared to mainland) very quickly start to realize that they need to eat and acquire things to survive... and survival mode is the worst part of any natural disaster. The damage done by Katrina to New Orleans was horrible, but honestly, the damage done afterwards by the people that lived there (that was done to survive, im not criticizing, morality changes real quick in survival mode) wsa pretty horrible, too. Imagine a small-ish island with not a lot of natural resources and no quick way to get truckloads of supplies en mass...

Not saying thats what's going to happen - but thats the kind of outcome people forget when they volunteer to ride out a natural disaster. The actual event is just the prelude to a pretty bad period of time for the area it hit... and the pain you will feel after the hurricane is likely to be much higher than the hurricane itself.

Re: Delta Goes Big, Then Goes Home

#98

Post by r00fus »

jandrese wrote: post #61

The only disappointment for me is that they flew a relatively modest 737 down there. If you're going to make a heroic flight like this do it in an A380 or a 747 and load up as many people as you can to get them out of dodge. I guess shuffling a big plane like that at the last minute is probably not feasible since they have their own routes to service. An evac flight could even go full on quick load. No checked bags,…

They had empty seats on the flight out. I'm pretty sure a 747-400 or A380 would have been wasted fuel and increased risk (due to size).

Re: Delta Goes Big, Then Goes Home

#99

Post by mschaef »

omegant wrote: post #89

Commercial pilot here, currently flying transatlantic routes. I avoided Irma last week while flying to Buenos Aires (it was not this big yet). I have partners in San Juan at this moment, bunkered in the hotel. We see this as a crazy move, very well executed, but too risky for the plane itself (not so much for the crew). Let me explain, the metar and tafors (the airport meteorological reports we use) during the flight…

This comment is a great example of why I read the comments on this site. Thanks for the answer. It provided some context I'd been wondering about.

Re: Delta Goes Big, Then Goes Home

#100

Post by rconti »

jandrese wrote: post #61

The only disappointment for me is that they flew a relatively modest 737 down there. If you're going to make a heroic flight like this do it in an A380 or a 747 and load up as many people as you can to get them out of dodge. I guess shuffling a big plane like that at the last minute is probably not feasible since they have their own routes to service. An evac flight could even go full on quick load. No checked bags,…

I have no insight into what kinds of planes are normally flown in and out of San Juan, but the plane has to be able to take off/land on the runway in question, the facility has to be able to service (maintain, fuel, provide jetways/stair cars for, etc) the plane, .. you don't (typically) just pick a random plane, fly it into a random place, and fly it out.
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