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Amazon to Build Second HQ in North America

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Re: Amazon to Build Second HQ in North America

#401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and sadly, a number of the gubernatorial candidates have indicated they are in favor of this bill.

Indeed. but metro Atlanta area itself is very progressive.

True, but I'm not referring here to whether the local community is politically progressive. The issue isn't whether there is nice record shops and an NPR affiliate.

I'm referring to the real possibility that Atlanta might become subject to laws that pretty much every corporation in America would consider a major downside when choosing where to site a HQ. I assume this is what they are referring to in the CFP when they talk about the "political stability" of a region.

Re: Amazon to Build Second HQ in North America

#402
post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US could just do what the EU does and ban sweetheart tax deals. Such tax deals are anti-small-company/unfair and it's a race to the bottom that no one will win.

Consumers, employers and investors would win. What are you talking about.

He means targeted deals for specific companies. That means that other employers of other companies lose out from unfair competition, which leads to monopoly that is bad for consumers.

Investors win, but not as well as they'd win in a fair competitive market.

Re: Amazon to Build Second HQ in North America

#403
post #94
post #8

It always amuses me how stunningly bad Amazon really is at making standalone pages on their web site. This one is totally unresponsive, has images for headings, and a slightly blurry image for the table. Here's Amazon Locker, which is even more dismal: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Click-and-Collect-with-Amazon-Locke... I guess they must have to produce all this stuff within the constraints of their CMS, but it really doe…

Amazon has many examples where they execute so poorly as to verge on the incompetent. Take the ads on the Kindle for example: why advertise books to me which I already own and purchased from Amazon? And then there is Prime video streaming, which is unwatchable through some client devices in the same house where Netflix is consistently excellent quality. I think they just have big areas where they don't give a rat's a…

Amazon has "frugality" as a core cultural value. They take pride in not doing any better than "meh" if anything more than "meh" costs more money.

Re: Amazon to Build Second HQ in North America

#404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say "the choice is between amazon + tax breaks and nothing" like the legal and cultural framework in which these processes take place is a force of nature. The choice is between those things because Amazon says so, and government chooses not to stand up to them by refusing to cooperate country-wide, or passing federal legislation. Amazon is not an outlier here: this is how all deals of this size in the United Sta…

> is a force of nature. Taxes are not a force of nature... If you were to effectively prohibit all states from giving tax incentives to get companies to make their HQ there, you will fail in 2 important ways. The first one is that there will always be a way to bargain company-state-city wide. So even though the tax burden might be the same, the company could order for , for example,special infrastructure or whatever,…

Totally agree that there are real downsides and complications. I didn't mean to diminish those. My point is that the post I was replying to (and a lot of people I talk to in the US), operate under the assumption that it has to be this way, because this is the way it is in the country we happen to live in.

Re: Amazon to Build Second HQ in North America

#405

Texas has the inside track, too. Wonder what city though... Austin's already too crowded as it is but has a great talent pool. Could be better off somewhere like San Marcos or Georgetown.

San Marcos already has the SAT2 fulfillment center, I'm not certain the city would benefit from another big Amazon presence.

Re: Amazon to Build Second HQ in North America

#406
post #150

I'll suggest a dark horse candidate: Indianapolis. Indy is close to two top 5 engineering colleges (UIUC and Purdue) and one top 10 business school (IU). Purdue has a unique product history with Amazon [1] and Amazon has four warehouses within an hour drive (though to be fair, that's true of a lot of cities). The city has seen major investment from outside tech companies like Salesforce [2], IAC [3], and others in re…

Unlikely. One of the requirements is daily direct flights to/from Seattle. Indy does technically have that but it's exactly 1 flight with poor timing for business considerations. They list a few other destinations as must-have nonstop flights, but I'm not sure how good those are. They're also putting a lot of stress on public transit, which is pretty abysmal in Indiana. They also don't want to sacrifice on some of th…

Having lived in Indianapolis for about 15 years, I also say it is unlikely. The talent pool is too shallow, because tech employers just haven't been there. I had to move to Chicago after graduating in order to get a [decent, career-advancing] job as a software professional. The majority of my high school friends also moved out to find jobs after college.

And parent confirms some of the other problems I have with Indy. Unigov overwhelmed the urban core with township voters, so city-county government is atypically conservative for a Midwestern city, which has a major impact on statewide politics. (Still less conservative than where I am now, though, and trust me when I say that being liberal or libertarian in a conservative state is like rubbing a cheese grater on your soul every time you visit the polls--no good options, and sometimes you don't even get two whole evils from which to choose the lesser.)

If you want to fly anywhere, you have to connect through ORD (American, United), MDW (Southwest), or ATL (Delta, Southwest). The direct flight to anywhere probably only runs once a day or less.

Also, all the tech people with kids will undoubtedly cluster in southern Hamilton county, and Washington or Lawrence townships, which won't be great for traffic, because there's no limited-access highway to downtown from anywhere on the north side. And what public transit? I might have seen a bus once or twice, while visiting downtown, within a 5-block radius of the circle. And the hospitals have a monorail since the merger, I guess. Beyond that, you're driving or walking.

Re: Amazon to Build Second HQ in North America

#407
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anybody who says People's Republic of Austin (ref: Bernie movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JREkqCvLzSo ) is not on progressive wing is kidding. Also, Whole Foods is head-quartered in Austin, so there could be "synergy" there.

Progressive islands in conservative states are almost worse They just get diced up and have no voice in state or federal government, and you end up with things like the NC and Texas bathroom bills. Why would a company like Amazon move to a state who's already so wrong on human rights issues? That's just asking for boycotts and mass resignations. I'd wager it's vastly more likely Whole Foods will move away than Amazon…

>Why would a company like Amazon move to a state who's already so wrong on human rights issues? That's just asking for boycotts and mass resignations.

Amazon is more concerned with regulatory and tax burdens, labor costs and what kind of deal they can strike with a local government than with "human rights issues." Their labor practices are already infamous, and they have warehouses in Texas already, and no one cares enough about any of it to boycott them.

To this end, Texas is attractive because culturally it's pro-business, anti-regulation and anti-labor (and very much pro-kickback.)

Re: Amazon to Build Second HQ in North America

#408
post #393
post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Progressive islands in conservative states are almost worse. They just get diced up and have no voice in state or federal government Not always. If it's a small area, sure it may get split apart, except packing is a thing as well and just as big of a deal. But Austin proper has nearly a million people. The metro area is more than two million. You'd need to split it into 6-8 districts even to have a shot at creating…

Gerrymandering is an issue. Please see https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/map , and zoom in on Austin. Austin is a part of the following Congressional districts: TX-21, TX-25, TX-31, TX-17, TX-10, & TX-35. Of these districts, only one (TX-35) is Democratic. On the other hand, Lamar Smith (TX-21) is one of the Representatives for the Bluest city in the state.

> > I'm not saying that gerrymandering isn't an issue

At least two of the districts you mention represent suburbs and not the city proper, which is what I was talking about.

Re: Amazon to Build Second HQ in North America

#409
post #161

The RFP is rather more interesting than the marketing page: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/Anything... The 2nd criterion is basically the total amount of sweet, sweet taxpayer dollars available to subsidize them: Please provide a summary of total incentives offered for the Project by the state/province and local community. In this summary, please provide a brief description of the incentive item,…

And anyone wonders why the USA does not have money for healthcare, higher education, high speed rail, etc. etc. I am in West Africa and everyone continually asks about the corruption. At least here it's up front and honest. The guy with the AK-47 just wants $5. In the USA, it's the guys in suits getting billions.

Funny, that's what an Afghani co-worker and I talked about during the last election cycle. We just obfuscate things with lawyers.

Re: Amazon to Build Second HQ in North America

#410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless money is being funneled into private politicians’ hands, it’s not corruption. The choice is between amazon + tax breaks and nothing. These cities clearly believe that they’re better off, net net, with Amazon and they’re probably right. This is not at all the same as accepting bribes. There are certainly bad deals out there, but mismanagement is not the same as corruption. Now if you can show that the politicia…

It's a race to the bottom. It results in one state or city that pollutes for the whole country. Governments should set things up so the whole economy benefits, sometimes that means banning defections so that game theory doesn't fuck things up for everyone.

This is exactly what I've been saying about tax breaks people want for the film industry here in LA so they can compete w/ Atlanta and other places in the US when really they need to be competing on a national basis, if these benefits are actually useful (which hasn't really been the case for taxpayers).
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