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Amazon to Build Second HQ in North America

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Re: Amazon to Build Second HQ in North America

#381

Post by nambit »

blackguardx wrote: post #146
sanderjd wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand (and largely share) the annoyance about these sorts of tax breaks, but as a software developer, it seems obvious that having an Amazon headquarters in my city would result in lots of job opportunities for me - not just at Amazon, but at other software companies that locate nearby over time due to the increased concentration of workers. So I don't understand your skepticism at the "job creation" part.

The skepticism is that the US is a place where the government isn't supposed to pick the winners and losers. If we want to go down this road, we should do what what many Asian countries do and offer incentives for anyone to open a facility in a given geographic region. Skepticism over the job creation part is because there are usually no guarantees with how many jobs the company ends up creating. In the Foxconn case,…

If there are better ways to generate it, then I'm sure they'll come to the fore. I agree that the practice is unfair and the government should pass some laws preventing it, but for the cities themselves, there's no better way to generate such job/tax growth.

If you've seen Amazon's crazy hiring for the past few years, you wouldn't doubt that they'll create a lot of jobs.

Re: Amazon to Build Second HQ in North America

#382

Post by madcaptenor »

madcaptenor wrote: post #246
mark212 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RFP says 45 minutes to an airport with direct flights to Seattle, SF, NYC, and Washington DC. I don't know the area but it seems to me that YYZ is too far away to qualify

Seems easy enough to make a list of all those airports.

Alright, I did it, based on OpenFlights route data (https://openflights.org/data.html). The list is:

Albuquerque, Atlanta, Austin, Boston, Charlotte, Chicago, Dallas-Fort Worth, Denver, Detroit, Houston, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Miami, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Orlando, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Portland, Sacramento, Salt Lake City, San Antonio, San Diego, St. Louis, Toronto.

Both Chicago airports are on the list, as are Fort Lauderdale (FLL) and Long Beach (LGB), but this is about metro areas, not airports. I also manually filtered out Honolulu.

Re: Amazon to Build Second HQ in North America

#386

Post by avenoir »

mratzloff wrote: post #67
avenoir wrote: post #42

If they're after tax breaks and cheap land they can follow companies like Sprint and Garmin and build open headquarters somewhere in East Kansas.

Small qualified developer pool to draw from and hard to attract outside talent. I grew up in eastern Kansas and left in part because of dismal career prospects. They'll end up choosing an up-and-coming city (i.e., positive population growth).

Perhaps many years ago? Eastern Kansas has a pretty massive tech sector now. So do some parts of Kansas City metro.

Re: Amazon to Build Second HQ in North America

#387

Post by unethical_ban »

euyyn wrote: post #376
unethical_ban wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing for a ban, but here would be the argument: It's clearly unethical, undesirable behavior, but even if a particular municipality didn't like the game, it's tough not to play (much like taking corporate donations for political campaigns). So instead of trying to live the libertarian good life of "Our city is better than that" and losing because someone else has fewer scruples, it is proposed that the pra…

I guess I would disagree with the "it's clearly unethical, undesirable behavior" part. I just don't think it's clearly good nor clearly bad.

I think it isn't in theory (jobs! tax revenue from families!) but how often do these things play out?

Re: Amazon to Build Second HQ in North America

#388

Post by dbot »

logfromblammo wrote: post #345
vadym909 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. Atlanta is a great choice.

Except that I want to live in Atlanta even less than I want to live in Seattle. It has a kind of psychic oppression field over it that makes me want to immediately turn around and leave. Atlanta looks good on paper. It always does. But actually being in the city tells me a different story. That said, I think only Atlanta, NYC, Chicago, or Boston could absorb the extra demand for skilled employees without sucking the…

As an Atlanta resident, I find it a terrible place to visit but a great place to live.

Great cities have (1) cool places to visit; and (2) lots of hidden gems - parks, restaurants, etc. - that take years to discover. Atlanta lacks the first, but has plenty of the second. That combined with good weather, great housing options and a Delta hub make it pretty nice to live in.

Re: Amazon to Build Second HQ in North America

#389

Post by kemiller »

3pt14159 wrote: post #334
kemiller wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless money is being funneled into private politicians’ hands, it’s not corruption. The choice is between amazon + tax breaks and nothing. These cities clearly believe that they’re better off, net net, with Amazon and they’re probably right. This is not at all the same as accepting bribes. There are certainly bad deals out there, but mismanagement is not the same as corruption. Now if you can show that the politicia…

It's a race to the bottom. It results in one state or city that pollutes for the whole country. Governments should set things up so the whole economy benefits, sometimes that means banning defections so that game theory doesn't fuck things up for everyone.

I'm sure that the tax benefits are not the only criterion here. There are plenty of things cities can do to attract companies that aren't tax breaks — SF and NY and others are already there. Amazon wants a place that its employees would actually want to live, too. But that doesn't mean tax breaks and other incentives shouldn't be on the table. But my point isn't even whether they're good or bad, it's that they're not prima facie evidence of corruption.

Re: Amazon to Build Second HQ in North America

#390

Post by pc2g4d »

quirkot wrote: post #12

> Why is Amazon choosing its second headquarters location via a public process? Because Foxconn got such an amazing deal and we want to get some of those sweet, sweet tax credits, too

Amazon is more or less conducting an auction. Cities will bid on hosting their second HQ. The best bid wins. Or maybe a better analogy is the Olympics site selection process.
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