Delta Goes Big, Then Goes Home • Hacker News Board

Re: Delta Goes Big, Then Goes Home

#41

Post by Tuxer » Thu, Sep 07, 2017, 6:27 PM UTC

antihero wrote: post #23

nxsynonym wrote: post #3

As easy of a target as airlines are for the usual criticism, this is an heroic feat. I applaud the efforts of everyone involved. I can't image what it must be like to fly into a storm system like that. Nerves of steel.

I wonder if the pilots volunteer for the run? It'd be interesting to know the internal culture with regards to it.

They did, this was a volunteer crew. Most of the passengers on the return flight weren't passengers in the normal sense of the word, but non-reqs, delta and other airline employees that were working in that airport and wanted to get out of dodge.

Re: Delta Goes Big, Then Goes Home

#42

Post by qume » Thu, Sep 07, 2017, 6:28 PM UTC

antihero wrote: post #23

nxsynonym wrote: post #3

As easy of a target as airlines are for the usual criticism, this is an heroic feat. I applaud the efforts of everyone involved. I can't image what it must be like to fly into a storm system like that. Nerves of steel.

I wonder if the pilots volunteer for the run? It'd be interesting to know the internal culture with regards to it.

The captain makes the same call on every flight. The plane and passangers are her responsibility regardless of the situation.

Edit - also the call is made continuously. They can back out any time.

Re: Delta Goes Big, Then Goes Home

#43

Post by Tuxer » Thu, Sep 07, 2017, 6:29 PM UTC

lisper wrote: post #28

Cshelton wrote: post #4

Other than a very bumpy ride and lots of nerves, I would think a 737 (and many other commercial jets) would have no problem flying through a hurricane. Landing on the other hand... Anyone with knowledge of this?

Private pilot with 20 yrs experience here... To say that a 737 would have "no problem" would be overly optimistic. A 737, like all commercial airliners, is pretty tough, but there are plenty of things in a hurricane that could bring one down. There's hail, up-and-downdrafts that far exceed the capability of the aircraft to overcome them, and turbulence severe enough to flip the plane inverted. The least likely event…

A hurricane isn't a thunderstorm, and has very limited vertical movement in its airflows. The hurricane hunter P3s do it.

Re: Delta Goes Big, Then Goes Home

#44

Post by phkahler » Thu, Sep 07, 2017, 6:30 PM UTC

antihero wrote: post #23

nxsynonym wrote: post #3

As easy of a target as airlines are for the usual criticism, this is an heroic feat. I applaud the efforts of everyone involved. I can't image what it must be like to fly into a storm system like that. Nerves of steel.

I wonder if the pilots volunteer for the run? It'd be interesting to know the internal culture with regards to it.

>> I wonder if the pilots volunteer for the run?

They may or may not have volunteered for the flight, but they do get the final decision to go in or turn back once the airline OKs it.

Re: Delta Goes Big, Then Goes Home

#45

Post by losteverything » Thu, Sep 07, 2017, 6:30 PM UTC

Tuxer wrote: post #41

antihero wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the pilots volunteer for the run? It'd be interesting to know the internal culture with regards to it.

They did, this was a volunteer crew. Most of the passengers on the return flight weren't passengers in the normal sense of the word, but non-reqs, delta and other airline employees that were working in that airport and wanted to get out of dodge.

Who was on the arrival flight?

Re: Delta Goes Big, Then Goes Home

#46

Post by mannykannot » Thu, Sep 07, 2017, 6:33 PM UTC

lightbyte wrote: post #16

passivepinetree wrote: post #12

Does anybody who works in the industry have any idea of what the risk management is like for these types of events? What are the odds something could go wrong compared to the relative good of squeezing in one last flight's revenue for a while? Is flying in a hurricane actually not that bad and the airport turnaround/takeoff the most dangerous part?

Flying through a hurricane sounds dangerous, but it's actually not much different than flying normally and is perfectly safe. Planes are very resistant to horizontal wind, which is all a hurricane is.

Flying into a hurricane involves a lot more than just horizontal wind. There's convection, turbulence, wind shear and heavy precipitation. It is not uncommon for hurricanes to spawn tornadoes.

NOAA has been flying aircraft into hurricanes since the 1950s. It is not inordinately dangerous, but it is not just another flight, either.

https://www.wunderground.com/resources/education/hugo1.asp

Re: Delta Goes Big, Then Goes Home

#47

Post by ocdtrekkie » Thu, Sep 07, 2017, 6:33 PM UTC

ars wrote: post #32

I'm wondering about the ground crew willing to stay in the airport to help this flight get going - and then having to get to a shelter in the middle of a hurricane.

While I'm not familiar with SJU, my guess is an airport terminal is likely one of the more sturdy buildings around, and is likely to have some pretty robust structures you can take shelter in. Most commercial buildings are sturdier than the average house, and I'd rather be at an airport than at home in a storm that levels buildings.

Re: Delta Goes Big, Then Goes Home

#48

Post by imatworkyo » Thu, Sep 07, 2017, 6:35 PM UTC

losteverything wrote: post #45

Tuxer wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did, this was a volunteer crew. Most of the passengers on the return flight weren't passengers in the normal sense of the word, but non-reqs, delta and other airline employees that were working in that airport and wanted to get out of dodge.

Who was on the arrival flight?

those with the real balls of steel

Re: Delta Goes Big, Then Goes Home

#49

Post by wahern » Thu, Sep 07, 2017, 6:38 PM UTC

lightbyte wrote: post #16

passivepinetree wrote: post #12

Does anybody who works in the industry have any idea of what the risk management is like for these types of events? What are the odds something could go wrong compared to the relative good of squeezing in one last flight's revenue for a while? Is flying in a hurricane actually not that bad and the airport turnaround/takeoff the most dangerous part?

Flying through a hurricane sounds dangerous, but it's actually not much different than flying normally and is perfectly safe. Planes are very resistant to horizontal wind, which is all a hurricane is.

You might be overselling your point with "perfectly safe". Extreme vertical winds are not uncommon in hurricanes. See

  https://ams.confex.com/ams/pdfpapers/108766.pdf

With some quick Googling, I get the sense that while people cite hurricane hunters, they gloss over important bits,

  But what does get interesting is flying through the 
  hurricane's rainbands and the eyewall.

  -- http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/H3.html

In particular, rainbands occur all throughout a hurricane. You can't really fly through a hurricane and not fly through these. I'm not an aviator but I grew up in Florida and have experienced several hurricanes. I get your point about hurricanes being mostly horizontal winds and why thunderstorms are much more dangerous. (I appreciate your post because it motivated me to learn more :)

But hurricanes are immense, and immensely powerful. The size and energy drive all manner of dangerous phenomena. For example, growing up in Florida we were worried less about the hurricane, per se, than the many tornados they often spawned.

Re: Delta Goes Big, Then Goes Home

#50

Post by phkahler » Thu, Sep 07, 2017, 6:38 PM UTC

noxToken wrote: post #21

Dowwie wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't glorify the analytics too much in this case. I'm confident that the management and the pilots made decisions that far exceeded decisions that could be made with data approximations.

Can't make decisions without data. Sure, management and flight crew deserve the lion's share, but that real-time data is probably critical for those decisions.

You know those planes have their own weather radar right?