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Bitumen balls could be a pipeline-free way to transport Alberta oil

cbc.ca

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Re: Bitumen balls could be a pipeline-free way to transport Alberta oil

#61

Post by dade_ »

pjc50 wrote: post #20

People are missing a couple of details in this: the Canadian "oil" in question is not a liquid from a well to start with, it's tar sands that have been dug up. The first step of processing is melting it to filter out the sand. This leaves you with viscous bitumen that cannot be pumped efficiently down a pipeline. So normally it's processed again to make "dilbit", diluted bitumen, in order to ship it to an oil refiner…

Dilbit is diluted with chemicals that need to be imported from the US or Middle East. These liquids also need to be transported and can result in their own spills. This looks like an important development.

Re: Bitumen balls could be a pipeline-free way to transport Alberta oil

#62

Post by ajarmst »

Boothroid wrote: post #60
calgaryeng wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should be aware that there are a number of oil sources that are far more carbon-intensive than the Canadian Oil Sands. Many of which ship direct to the United States. One is even produced IN the United States (Bakersfield, CA). On a wells-to-wheels basis, Canadian oil sands are only 6-8% more carbon-intensive than typical light crude (e.g. Saudi), and it comes from a politically-friendly country that supports fem…

Alternative opinion: 'Strip-mining the boreal to extract the tar sands and processing the oil makes the sands much more damaging to the climate than conventional oil. “I believe the carbon intensity of extraction and processing for the oil sands is about double that of conventional oil,” Homer-Dixon said.' http://grist.org/article/this-could-be-the-end-of-canadian-t... I guess this is an inconvenient truth based on t…

Thankfully, neither petroleum extraction nor climate science need be faith-based, so Homer-Dixon's personal beliefs aren't all that relevant. There are multiple studies (not funded by petroleum companies) that document why he's wrong (http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/4/1/0140... is a good metastudy). Grist.org is hardly a neutral source on the issue.

By all means, advocate for wide-scale reduction and elimination of the use of petroleum products. Demand that your representatives fight for carbon-neutral energy production. But pretending that boycotting Canadian products and instead consuming more coal, fracked shale oil and tanker-shipped crude from corrupt autocratic regimes is somehow an important part of solving the problem just makes you look like you're not paying attention. As does supporting corrupt officials and corporate misbehavior in places like Saudi Arabia, Nigeria and Venezuela over supporting an allied liberal democracy with a strong (at least in comparison) record of environmental stewardship and oversight on corporate activity.

Re: Bitumen balls could be a pipeline-free way to transport Alberta oil

#63

Post by deltawave »

riffraff wrote: post #49

so, you make pellets. Then you have to mix them with some "light" oil produced during the production of pellets. So you still have to transport them together. I cannot really understand how this is better than carrying oil directly.

They mention using the byproduct oil to reconstitute the pellets, but that oil could come from another source. I would picture a system where the pellets are shipped from alberta to houston etc., and the light oil produced by the process is used as fuel within alberta or transported to local refineries by smaller pipeline or train/truck. The balls would be reconstituted using oil available at the houston refinery, or using oil produced at that refinery in the oil upgrading process.

Re: Bitumen balls could be a pipeline-free way to transport Alberta oil

#64

Post by devrandomguy »

petraeus wrote: post #44
Boothroid wrote: post #5

Anything that facilitates increased use of tar sands hydrocarbons is terrible news for the environment. We should ban this miserable trade.

You're right, we also need to ban, cars, milk, beef, beer, clothes, plastics, .. oh crap we've now banned everything that underpins our modern technological age.

What makes you think that any of those things, including plastics, must by made from fossil oil? So tired of being told that the only way to do things, is the way we are currently doing them. Heck, we don't even have to make so much stuff out of plastic at all, and considering where that plastic is turning up in the food chain, it might be worth the expense to start finding replacements. Aluminum recycles nicely, hemp makes some excellent fabrics, cows will do just fine on a diet of grass.

Re: Bitumen balls could be a pipeline-free way to transport Alberta oil

#65

Post by sctb »

codecamper wrote: post #26
Boothroid wrote: post #5

Anything that facilitates increased use of tar sands hydrocarbons is terrible news for the environment. We should ban this miserable trade.

How is this post the lowest on the ranking? "technological" programmers are some of the most non-science understanding people around. A real shame! Read some science beyond your programming documentation please.

Personal attacks are not OK on Hacker News. Please don't post like this.

Re: Bitumen balls could be a pipeline-free way to transport Alberta oil

#66

Post by jacquesm »

SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #52
jacquesm wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, under those conditions I would call bitumen a 'semi solid'. It is not hard in the sense of an actual solid, you can deform it but it definitely does not flow like a liquid.

Actually bitumen does flow. It's an extremely viscous liquid. There are a couple of pitch drop experiments[1] running, where bitumen is placed in a funnel and allowed to slowly flow. The experiment at the University of Queensland opened the funnel in 1930, 9 drops have flowed out since then, the last in 2014. The period between drops after air conditioning was installed seems to be in the 12-14 year range (only 2 dro…

That's super interesting. I wonder if a vortex (a very very slow one) forms in the pitch in the upper container.

Re: Bitumen balls could be a pipeline-free way to transport Alberta oil

#67

Post by DinkMeeker »

Boothroid wrote: post #48
codecamper wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You understand the carbon cycle then. So what is the plan with that & coal & oil? These are problems that humans understood 60 years ago. Since then it's been a few generations of scientists and engineers thinking they were each too small to make a difference on the world. It's starting to be too late for that kind of thinking.

Tar sands are massively CO2 intensive, as well as hugely destructive of land. Take a look at satellite imagery of extraction areas - they literally tear the surface of the earth off. Watercourses are polluted with all kinds of horrible poisons as a result. One has to be wilfully ignorant or cynical to ignore the fact that we really shouldn't be exploiting this energy resource at all if we want to avoid cooking the pl…

Don't forget the tailings ponds that are constructed to park the waste and residue chemicals from extraction and processing. They are simply left there until time and eventual facilities decay allow them to leak into nearby waterways.

Re: Bitumen balls could be a pipeline-free way to transport Alberta oil

#68

Post by wbl »

jacquesm wrote: post #66
SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually bitumen does flow. It's an extremely viscous liquid. There are a couple of pitch drop experiments[1] running, where bitumen is placed in a funnel and allowed to slowly flow. The experiment at the University of Queensland opened the funnel in 1930, 9 drops have flowed out since then, the last in 2014. The period between drops after air conditioning was installed seems to be in the 12-14 year range (only 2 dro…

That's super interesting. I wonder if a vortex (a very very slow one) forms in the pitch in the upper container.

No, there is too much frictional loss.

Re: Bitumen balls could be a pipeline-free way to transport Alberta oil

#69

Post by btbuildem »

riffraff wrote: post #49

so, you make pellets. Then you have to mix them with some "light" oil produced during the production of pellets. So you still have to transport them together. I cannot really understand how this is better than carrying oil directly.

Did you read the article? The pellets _are_ the oil -- the outer shell is hardened bitumen, the inside is liquid.

Re: Bitumen balls could be a pipeline-free way to transport Alberta oil

#70

Post by btbuildem »

The article mentions using rail cars to transport the bitumen balls -- but given the nature of the material, would they not stick together into clumps / semi-solid layers at the bottoms of rail cars? Coal is solid / brittle, almost slippery. These things seem to be the opposite.
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