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Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

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Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#431

Post by falsedan »

oneplane wrote: post #416
falsedan wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You think this exchange shows a recruiter conducting a psych experiment? No. I said what I meant; which part didn't make sense? edit: downvoters, if you disagree you'd better leave a comment telling me why im dum

Well, since you asked... Your statement is a mismatch between the comment about the lossy filter, and the actual email conversation, which clearly shows the lossy filter in all its glory.

My statement is about condescendingly calling humans doing their job 'lossy filters', and challenging the deeply-ugly assumption that they should have bowed to the candidate's correctness.

The recruiter wanted to advance the candidate through the pipeline; they told them exactly what they needed to do to proceed; the candidate didn't think it was necessary to modify their position to conform with the requirements, in the face of someone asking nicely.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#432

Post by GreaterFool »

AJRF wrote: post #417

Its weird to see people encourage the guy for this. If you can't bite your tongue in order deal with someone who is clearly not getting it, what else are you going to slam the brakes on progress for? It was in your best interest to just let it go, then clarify in the follow up interview or when it came to a technically adept person. I get the arguments that the HR recruiter was a bit off a buffoon, but at the abstrac…

> I get the arguments that the HR recruiter was a bit off a buffoon, but at the abstract level, you lacked the pragmatism and interpersonal skills to brush through something that clearly isn't important seeing as you have the relevant skills.

Maybe that was the test all along :)

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#433

Post by 9to5isdead »

meri_dian wrote: post #427
mozumder wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a new-grad. They're generally not going to be masters of etiquette when facing social challenges.

That actually makes it more problematic. New grads trying to break into an industry should be especially respectful. If someone can't strategically avoid confrontation when the situation calls for it, that does not bode well for their ability to work in a team. There are many new grads who are capable of appropriately dealing with social challenges. Those who can't have only themselves to blame.

True, but the recruiter on the other hand should show more experience and cognition. The emails might refer to systems the recruiter doesn't understand, but the actual words make complete sense.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#434

Post by pmiller2 »

paulgb wrote: post #422
AJRF wrote: post #417

Its weird to see people encourage the guy for this. If you can't bite your tongue in order deal with someone who is clearly not getting it, what else are you going to slam the brakes on progress for? It was in your best interest to just let it go, then clarify in the follow up interview or when it came to a technically adept person. I get the arguments that the HR recruiter was a bit off a buffoon, but at the abstrac…

I agree in principle but it seems like his only way to go forward was to either lie about having direct experience with UNIX, or try to explain that POSIX is transferrable. I would have taken the latter route as well, reasoning that if it ended up costing me the job it would have been a big red flag anyway. I used to interview at Google and I've dealt with entitled candidates, but this reads about as polite as I coul…

I agree with your agreement in principle, but the real mistake was not simply adding Unix to the skills list to begin with, and keeping POSIX and Linux. It's not really a lie, and it's pretty obvious from the first email what's going on with this recruiter. Besides, if he's touched a Macbook, he's used UNIX in some form, because at least 7 versions of OSX have been certified as Unix [0].

I don't think I'd have thought of one ignorant recruiter out of a company of many thousands as a red flag. We have a great recruiter at my company, but I have no idea if he knows the difference between Unix, POSIX, and Linux, or if he knows OSX is a Unix (tm).

[0]: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/1489/is-mac-os-x-un...

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#435

Post by linkmotif »

notyourday wrote: post #428
rdslw wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commenting just to let you know. You did nothing wrong. Never forget who reached for who. It's FB in desperate need that they pick workers from students these days. Also, trying to (yuck) trick you into providing names of others companies - hahaha - it's like you asking him: what's the maximum salary FB can offer or similar questions. Disgusting simply because any sane person (your friend e.g.) would suggest you neve…

> Commenting just to let you know. You did nothing wrong. > Never forget who reached for who. This is the most important comment in this entire thread.

> Never forget who reached for who.

Yep, that's the core.

Whether he did something wrong, though, depends on how much he wanted the job.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#436

Post by spacelizard »

AJRF wrote: post #417

Its weird to see people encourage the guy for this. If you can't bite your tongue in order deal with someone who is clearly not getting it, what else are you going to slam the brakes on progress for? It was in your best interest to just let it go, then clarify in the follow up interview or when it came to a technically adept person. I get the arguments that the HR recruiter was a bit off a buffoon, but at the abstrac…

On the contrary, this was an obvious power play by the recruiter to get the candidate to agree and submit to whatever arbitrary KPI has been passed down by the HR manager, regardless of whether or not it's meaningful. I would not take anything away from this other than that the candidate was probably not a good fit for the position anyway, as they don't seem to gel well with the BS corporate politics. Some do, some don't.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#437

Post by pc86 »

mozumder wrote: post #421
AJRF wrote: post #417

Its weird to see people encourage the guy for this. If you can't bite your tongue in order deal with someone who is clearly not getting it, what else are you going to slam the brakes on progress for? It was in your best interest to just let it go, then clarify in the follow up interview or when it came to a technically adept person. I get the arguments that the HR recruiter was a bit off a buffoon, but at the abstrac…

It's a new-grad. They're generally not going to be masters of etiquette when facing social challenges.

It doesn't take a master of etiquette not to send a recruiter a 4-paragraph explanation of the finer points of POSIX v. UNIX. "I'm right and I'm going to explain to you exactly why whether it's relevant or not" is not generally a good attitude to have in the business world, even if you're working for Facebook.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#439

Post by jaclaz »

aspyrx wrote: post #128

Hey folks, I'm the student writing the emails in the post here. Thanks to everyone for their criticisms. While I was initially kind of shocked by the recruiter's response, I've had a lot of time to think about it today and have realized that I was being pretty damn condescending and spoke out of line without regards to the context. It's been a hard lesson learned. I honestly regret the whole exchange, and posting it…

If I may, Stanley you were IMHO "perfect": correct, respectful, clear, plain.

Personally I would have (different character AND way too many years dealing with this kind of people) sent him this:

https://i.imgflip.com/spwve.jpg

(and be blacklisted forever).

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#440

Post by paulgb »

pmiller2 wrote: post #434
paulgb wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree in principle but it seems like his only way to go forward was to either lie about having direct experience with UNIX, or try to explain that POSIX is transferrable. I would have taken the latter route as well, reasoning that if it ended up costing me the job it would have been a big red flag anyway. I used to interview at Google and I've dealt with entitled candidates, but this reads about as polite as I coul…

I agree with your agreement in principle, but the real mistake was not simply adding Unix to the skills list to begin with, and keeping POSIX and Linux. It's not really a lie, and it's pretty obvious from the first email what's going on with this recruiter. Besides, if he's touched a Macbook, he's used UNIX in some form, because at least 7 versions of OSX have been certified as Unix [0]. I don't think I'd have though…

I don't see a recruiter not knowing the particulars of POSIX/UNIX differences as the red flag (heck, I'm not even sure I could answer that question). The red flag to me is that the Kafkaesque exchange that followed, I suspect, is the product of the overall recruiting culture rather than a lone recruiter.
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