To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors • Hacker News Board

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#691

Post by surge » Thu, Sep 07, 2017, 2:11 PM UTC

posguy wrote: post #503

gremlinsinc wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you suggest as an alternative if there were only enough jobs to support 20-30% of people .. including professional jobs like doctors/radiologists/lawyers being displaced?

Sounds like it could be great, terrible, or somewhere in between in the future you describe. I'm a socialist by upbringing, hopefully we would be smart enough to organize our society such that we take care of those most vulnerable among us. Currently we make a modicum of effort towards this, and vilify the working poor as lazy, no good scum, despite how they often work much more than those who earn more than them.

Why do people who call out capitalism for being a broken system, fail to acknowledge socialism (in all of its purest forms tried so far) is also broken and doesn't work when you have non-altruistic self interested humans in the mix or at least people who will look out for others but mostly people in their social proximity. I'm all happy for an alternative, and something better than capitalism. but at least suggest a working alternative. Capitalism for all its faults seems to have the highest chance of success, especially when you hybridize it with some socialist policies which is more or less what most western countries have done and even then there are basic issues, but neither extreme capitalism or socialism works. Both have a tendency to encourage different forms of corruption and different levels of inequality, or just short lived gains.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#692

Post by surge » Thu, Sep 07, 2017, 2:12 PM UTC

URSpider94 wrote: post #595

PeeryTwo wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slightly offtopic, althought maybe not: Is it any political party's goal to close all tax loop holes, so as to virtually eliminate the possibility of another Bill Gates or Steve Jobs or Jeff Bezos, at least on their scale?

What makes you think that Gates and Bezos were created by tax loopholes? And, what do you even mean by tax loopholes? Is postponement of capital gains until a sale event a loophole? Most of Bezos' wealth comes from his ownership of Amazon, which won't be taxed until he sells his shares. Changing that rule would mean Bezos might be less rich, but it would also mean that you would have to pony up tax money every time y…

I technically do, it's called property taxes which are directly tied to the assessed value of my house.

That said, I agree with your point, just bad example.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#693

Post by solidsnack9000 » Thu, Sep 07, 2017, 9:47 PM UTC

Chris2048 wrote: post #688

solidsnack9000 wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth asking what it means for it to be required by the average job. Being renewable doesn't seem to admit of a lot of variation -- things are or aren't (but we could discuss something more formal for this and that would affect the remaining analysis). Accepting the idea that renewability is either slightly more than 1.0 or slightly less, if the "average job" is renewable it suggests most of the common jobs have…

The job dynamic are likely a predator-prey style relationship of supply vs demand. The main features of janitorial work is few barriers to entry. There is fair demand, but there is plentiful supply which is why it is relatively low paid. If Janitors could only replace Janitors, then being "non-renewable" would reduce supply, increasing wage, and maintaining balance. In reality, the main feature of Janitorial work is…

> The job dynamic are likely a predator-prey style relationship of supply vs demand.

I thought about this for a while after you wrote it.

In a stable setting, where there is not a large and pre-existing supply of prey, prey animals tend to have large broods. Many off their offspring are preyed upon or otherwise unable to reproduce, but just enough make it in each generation and likewise manage to have large broods.

This is not a behaviour that seems plausible with modern people. The amount of time required to educate someone prior to their entering workforce is enormous now -- we can't afford to do something like what prey animals do, with regards to work.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#694

Post by fapjacks » Fri, Sep 08, 2017, 10:46 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #487

fapjacks wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! This is another huge misconception about raising taxes: The American government is massively wasteful in spending! We get so little value for the taxes we pay! People don't want to contribute even more money to the wasteful spending, which I can totally understand, but it doesn't have to be that way! In Sweden for example, you get tremendous value for the taxes you pay. The tax rate is higher, but you really do…

Why is it that the Swedes don't speak German today?

Then you should ask yourself why it is that Germans don't speak Swedish today.