Facebook recruiting and Unix systems • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#251

Post by cthalupa » Thu, Sep 07, 2017, 5:43 AM UTC

While both parties here could learn how to communicate better, there's an important distinction:

The student is representing only himself. The recruiter is representing the company.

When a recruiter mishandles a situation so massively as was the case here, it puts Facebook in a poor light. Obviously, Facebook's engineering teams are well aware of what all of this technology is, but it is distasteful to see this complete lack of understanding and know that I might have to deal with it if I were to work with one of their recruiters.

I'm not saying the industry in general is better than this, but it would have taken the recruiter all of 30 seconds to draft an email to the hiring manager and ask for clarification - "This guy is really insistent on how he has POSIX and Linux experience and that this will be okay. What do?"

Also, putting Unix on the required skills for an intern position? What did they think was going to happen?

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#252

Post by gleenn » Thu, Sep 07, 2017, 5:43 AM UTC

autokad wrote: post #221

rjeli wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ridiculous. Nothing in your responses was rude. The CMU recruiter is dense and underqualified. Don't apologize for taking the time to remain honest in your communications and explain the circumstances.

Because of the monopolies that have been allowed to exist, getting black listed by FB is akin to chopping off a large portion of the quality tech jobs out there. Its not that he was factually wrong (or even wrong in etiquette) , but as my mom said you can be right and dead right, which is why he recognizes he needed a better approach to leave the most opportunities for his career going forward

I hardly think getting blacklisted by FB would lose you opportunities outside of FB. Sure, you probably can't get a job at Instagram because they probably share the recruiting database. Beyond that, there are a million startups, and tons of other medium and large engineering companies that need technical people. Seriously, Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc are all trying to steal each other's employees. They are competing so they definitely don't share such information.

If this person is good, they will definitely have opportunities elsewhere.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#253

Post by new299 » Thu, Sep 07, 2017, 5:51 AM UTC

aspyrx wrote: post #128

Hey folks, I'm the student writing the emails in the post here. Thanks to everyone for their criticisms. While I was initially kind of shocked by the recruiter's response, I've had a lot of time to think about it today and have realized that I was being pretty damn condescending and spoke out of line without regards to the context. It's been a hard lesson learned. I honestly regret the whole exchange, and posting it…

As you've requested comments. I would say your replies were fine. You gave more detail than was necessary, and the recruiter was not able to understand. That's not really your fault though.

Your comment here however indicates to me you lack confidence. That's normal too. But lacking confidence can be career limiting.

You're trying to figure out "what did I do wrong" which is a useful exercise, but as Picard said "it is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose that is not a weakness, that is life".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4A-Ml8YHyM

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#254

Post by feelin_googley » Thu, Sep 07, 2017, 5:57 AM UTC

aspyrx wrote: post #128

Hey folks, I'm the student writing the emails in the post here. Thanks to everyone for their criticisms. While I was initially kind of shocked by the recruiter's response, I've had a lot of time to think about it today and have realized that I was being pretty damn condescending and spoke out of line without regards to the context. It's been a hard lesson learned. I honestly regret the whole exchange, and posting it…

Since you are soliciting feedback, I think you can do better than Facebook.

You have taken the time at university to learn about the origins of "UNIX" and about portability, but it seems clear to me you do not need to know about these things for this Facebook internship.

If you want this knowledge to be acknowledged and valued, if you want to put it into practice, then perhaps Facebook is not the proper place for this to happen.

There are open source UNIX-like projects that would be better suited and more appreciative.

If the position they were recruiting for was not "UNIX and Linux" then I would have a different opinion.

You did nothing wrong. Sure, you could have gotten past this recruiter by being more cooperative but if you are really passionate about UNIX then I think the internship would be a disappointment.

You come across as far more impressive than the Facebook organization and I hope that you will stick with UNIX-like OS going forward, whether as part of your day job or as an open source contributor.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#255

Post by throwaway0255 » Thu, Sep 07, 2017, 5:58 AM UTC

SmirkingRevenge wrote: post #199

samoright wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not uncommon to come across open positions that actually do require Unix (not Linux) experience. For example, American Express has a large deployment of AIX systems and they indeed look for candidates with experience in AIX systems, although I believe someone with experience in another Unix or Unix-like system should also be okay. But I agree that such openings are usually quite specific about which Unix system…

This is true, but I would imagine that, if not in the job description, if a really specific kind of Unix experience is required, it would come out in the exchange - and be really OS specific and actually say - True64, AIX, Solaris, etc. "Unix-like" today means bsd/linux. The recruiter did bad, but recruiters will always do bad. If its a job you want, don't let a recruiter foible disqualify you, if you can help it.

This is kind of out of left-field, but are you the same Smirk from AC/MT (~17 years ago)?

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#256

Post by kev009 » Thu, Sep 07, 2017, 6:01 AM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #156

kev009 wrote: post #64

Sort of off topic but I am just kind of wondering if there is a safety net if I ever burn out, and how much money I am potentially not earning :o)... Any chance someone on here that was deeply technical transitioned into recruiting? Will you spill the beans like compensation ranges, per head bonus/commission, and satisfaction? As an engineering manager I've done all my own recruiting and have been recognized by my ma…

It's not a bad gig, but it's sales. You need to fill and maintain your funnel of both candidates and customers. Typically you get a cut of the action (10-20% of first year salary or annual rate) or spiffs. If you have a good network of contacts, you may be able to specialize in some niche that pays more.

The most appealing thing to me about that is performance based pay. It's not hard to imagine closing dozens of hires a year in a moderately interesting company. It probably feels great too, as you're greatly helping individuals and managers and the company by landing talent.

In an engineering org, I typically see low salary multiples for the lowest and highest performers. The lowest may be barely responsive while the highest is trading away health and life to make something happen. There is a real ceiling for pay vs effort and talent in technical roles. Tech management roles can allow for less effort and incentive programs are easier to come by, but it is still very seldom performance based where again the difference between the worst and the best is marginal. Cynically, it seems the most effective game theory to maximize ROI in a technical org is to be a shitbag and perform minimally. I can't bring myself to slump like that.

I am really thinking I need to transition into something like this or sales to build wealth in a few years. I would trade 10 years of grueling effort for financial freedom. I traded 15 years of basically unpaid grueling learning to become a systems expert. Very silly from an ROI perspective. I can always get intellectual stimulation from open source I guess, but I'd caution anyone from taking the path I did.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#257

Post by brad0 » Thu, Sep 07, 2017, 6:02 AM UTC

nulagrithom wrote: post #245

brad0 wrote: post #112

Other comments say this guy should learn how to communicate better. I agree with that. Knowing the person you're talking to helps greatly. The average recruiter has a high school certificate and that's it. They're hired to do largely manual work comparing skills on resumes to skills on job positions. Now that you know how they work you should ask yourself what's your goal? Is it to get that internship at Facebook? If…

> Put the skills from the job listing on your damn resume. He did. Everyone seems to be scrolling by that screenshot. He's trying to be honest -- the poor bastard. A few more interactions like this though and he's bound to start telling white lies on his resume. Eventually he'll start to think "sure, I've got like '4 years'ish of experience in that... fuck it..." And so it goes. Pretty soon he's just like everyone el…

I agree that it's terrible and it promotes bad behaviour. I'm yet to see a system that outperforms it though.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#258

Post by krick » Thu, Sep 07, 2017, 6:03 AM UTC

2_listerine_pls wrote: post #72

cracell wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it says here you've worked with pipes in large commercial buildings and small residential buildings. But this position is primarily for pipes in park bathrooms. Do you have any experience with that type of pipe?

Please draw a triangle with 2 perpendicular lines.

Actually, any right triangle is "a triangle with 2 perpendicular lines"...

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#259

Post by ideal0227 » Thu, Sep 07, 2017, 6:04 AM UTC

aspyrx wrote: post #128

Hey folks, I'm the student writing the emails in the post here. Thanks to everyone for their criticisms. While I was initially kind of shocked by the recruiter's response, I've had a lot of time to think about it today and have realized that I was being pretty damn condescending and spoke out of line without regards to the context. It's been a hard lesson learned. I honestly regret the whole exchange, and posting it…

If you never work on Unix, then you should insist on saying so. Holding integrity is much more important than getting an internship from FB. And, as an engineer working in the infrastructure space, I do not believe FB is looking for someone has UNIX experience for the internship.

The recruiter is not knowledgeable. If he/she is hiring for production engineering, he/she needs to understand the basic of the keywords they search for. No reason for you to apologize.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#260

Post by victor___ » Thu, Sep 07, 2017, 6:06 AM UTC

I interned at Facebook a while back (pre-IPO). On the first day of onboarding my neighbor was struggling to follow the instructions - it turned out he'd never used bash or any Unix-like system before.

Anyway, I guess he figured it out since he did well enough to get a return offer.

Apparently things have changed a bit.