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Facebook says it sold political ads to Russian company during 2016 election

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Facebook says it sold political ads to Russian company during 2016 election

#131

Post by 13years »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #101
13years wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we are to accept the 'Clinton Foundation spokesman' as the definitive source of truth, then in fairness we would have to accept the administration's claims on Russia with the same merits. As to why, there seems to be more of a corrupt veil that obscures Saudi Arabia's true role in the world vs. Russia. For example https://news.vice.com/story/saudi-arabia-is-the-top-sponsor-...

The Clinton Foundation publicly discloses all its donors. https://www.clintonfoundation.org/contributors

Trump has stated there are no ties to Russia.

So we can now be done with both of these concerns?

Re: Facebook says it sold political ads to Russian company during 2016 election

#133

Post by [deleted] »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #126
elipsey wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TFA: "Under federal law and Federal Election Commission regulations, both foreign nationals and foreign governments are prohibited from making contributions or spending money to influence a federal, state or local election in the United States. The ban includes independent expenditures made in connection with an election. Those banned from such spending include foreign citizens, foreign governments, foreign political…

> foreign governments, foreign political parties How is that enforced? A US court can't exactly send the Russian government or the Communist Party of China to prison for breaking the law here, can it?

[deleted]

Re: Facebook says it sold political ads to Russian company during 2016 election

#134

Post by codedokode »

meri_dian wrote: post #90

I implore everyone alarmed by recent Russian assaults on Western Democratic institutions to get their hands on an English translation of 'The Foundations of Geopolitics' by Aleksandr Dugin. Dugin is a Russian academic and the book is essentially a textbook on how Russia should seek to subvert and destabilize Europe, the US and other Russian rivals in order to forge a new empire for the explicit purpose of ethnic Russ…

I didn't read the book but it is worth noting that those ideas are Dugin's personal opinion (of course there might be people who support it, for example there are people that dream of reviving Soviet Union). It is not official Moscow's policy.

Also ethnic Russian domination might be a bit difficult because in Russia itself there are many different ethnic groups [1] that wouldn't approve this idea.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_Russia

Re: Facebook says it sold political ads to Russian company during 2016 election

#135

Post by lern_too_spel »

13years wrote: post #131
lern_too_spel wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Clinton Foundation publicly discloses all its donors. https://www.clintonfoundation.org/contributors

Trump has stated there are no ties to Russia. So we can now be done with both of these concerns?

We have already found multiple ties to Russia, contradicting Trump's claims.

The Clinton Foundation's disclosures match the totals in its mandatory financial reports. https://www.clintonfoundation.org/about/annual-financial-rep...

Re: Facebook says it sold political ads to Russian company during 2016 election

#136

Post by codedokode »

javajosh wrote: post #103
meri_dian wrote: post #90

I implore everyone alarmed by recent Russian assaults on Western Democratic institutions to get their hands on an English translation of 'The Foundations of Geopolitics' by Aleksandr Dugin. Dugin is a Russian academic and the book is essentially a textbook on how Russia should seek to subvert and destabilize Europe, the US and other Russian rivals in order to forge a new empire for the explicit purpose of ethnic Russ…

I'm curious: other than a will to power, is there any philosophical or principle-driven reason for Russia's actions? In other words, why don't Russians want Western liberal democracy for themselves?

In Russia the word "democracy" has some negative meaning. After Soviet Union collapse there was a period (1990-2000) of "freedom" with economic downturn, poverty, hyperinflation, corruption, raise of criminal activity and a war in Chechnya. By the way, Wikipedia says [1] that ecomomic problems might be a result of reforms suggested by American economists. Russia began recovering only when Putin became a President.

Putin likes to remind about this saying things like "Do you remember what the country was before I became the President? You don't want to return to that time, don't you?"

People in Russia want higher salary (median salary is $500/month) and reasonable mortgage interest rates (now it can be as high as 12%), not more democracy.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Russia#Transition_t...

Re: Facebook says it sold political ads to Russian company during 2016 election

#137

Post by mirimir »

meri_dian wrote: post #90

I implore everyone alarmed by recent Russian assaults on Western Democratic institutions to get their hands on an English translation of 'The Foundations of Geopolitics' by Aleksandr Dugin. Dugin is a Russian academic and the book is essentially a textbook on how Russia should seek to subvert and destabilize Europe, the US and other Russian rivals in order to forge a new empire for the explicit purpose of ethnic Russ…

The US "won" the Cold War by bankrupting the former Soviet Union. And then they humiliated its leadership. Putin was Yeltsin's protégé, and watched him dying of alcoholism. He's still angry. And remember, much of his family died in the siege of Leningrad.

So, yes. They have a plan.

Re: Facebook says it sold political ads to Russian company during 2016 election

#138

Post by mirimir »

klenwell wrote: post #108
meri_dian wrote: post #90

I implore everyone alarmed by recent Russian assaults on Western Democratic institutions to get their hands on an English translation of 'The Foundations of Geopolitics' by Aleksandr Dugin. Dugin is a Russian academic and the book is essentially a textbook on how Russia should seek to subvert and destabilize Europe, the US and other Russian rivals in order to forge a new empire for the explicit purpose of ethnic Russ…

This New Yorker article from March provides a lot of background on Russia's "Hybrid War" strategy and its motivations: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/06/trump-putin-an... Reading that article left me pretty slack-jawed. It cites a 2013 article, "The Value of Science in Prediction", by Chief of General Staff of Russian Federated Armed Forces Valery Gerasimov as a canonical text behind the Russian election…

Yes, it was that New Yorker article that I was remembering. In particular, this bit:

> In 1996, during a summit meeting in Moscow, Clinton went for an early-morning run with Talbott in the Sparrow Hills, near Moscow State University. Clinton had known Talbott since they were students at Oxford, and confided his anxiety. He did not regret the expansion of NATO or the decision, at last, to battle Serbian forces in Bosnia. But he knew that he was making Yeltsin’s political life excruciatingly difficult.

> “We keep telling ol’ Boris, ‘O.K., now, here’s what you’ve got to do next—here’s some more shit for your face,’ ” Clinton told Talbott as they ran. “And that makes it real hard for him, given what he’s up against and who he’s dealing with.”

> Earlier that year, Yeltsin had summoned Talbott. “I don’t like it when the U.S. flaunts its superiority,” he told him. “Russia’s difficulties are only temporary, and not only because we have nuclear weapons but also because of our economy, our culture, our spiritual strength. All that amounts to a legitimate, undeniable basis for equal treatment. Russia will rise again! I repeat: Russia will rise again.”

Re: Facebook says it sold political ads to Russian company during 2016 election

#139

Post by codedokode »

meri_dian wrote: post #90

I implore everyone alarmed by recent Russian assaults on Western Democratic institutions to get their hands on an English translation of 'The Foundations of Geopolitics' by Aleksandr Dugin. Dugin is a Russian academic and the book is essentially a textbook on how Russia should seek to subvert and destabilize Europe, the US and other Russian rivals in order to forge a new empire for the explicit purpose of ethnic Russ…

Calling publishing some ads in Facebook an "assault on Democratic Institutions" is a bit exaggerated.

Re: Facebook says it sold political ads to Russian company during 2016 election

#140

Post by nradov »

mirimir wrote: post #138
klenwell wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This New Yorker article from March provides a lot of background on Russia's "Hybrid War" strategy and its motivations: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/06/trump-putin-an... Reading that article left me pretty slack-jawed. It cites a 2013 article, "The Value of Science in Prediction", by Chief of General Staff of Russian Federated Armed Forces Valery Gerasimov as a canonical text behind the Russian election…

Yes, it was that New Yorker article that I was remembering. In particular, this bit: > In 1996, during a summit meeting in Moscow, Clinton went for an early-morning run with Talbott in the Sparrow Hills, near Moscow State University. Clinton had known Talbott since they were students at Oxford, and confided his anxiety. He did not regret the expansion of NATO or the decision, at last, to battle Serbian forces in Bosn…

And yet so far Yeltsin is still wrong: Russia's difficulties appear to be permanent. Population and life expectancy have declined. GDP growth has been low and erratic; currently their economy is smaller than Italy. They rank 131st on the worldwide corruption index. All of these problems are self inflicted.
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