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The fertility of the older mind

bbc.com

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Re: The fertility of the older mind

#101

Post by kinkrtyavimoodh »

evincarofautumn wrote: post #99
koolba wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning a language (spoken, not programming) is similar. If you're willing to sound like an idiot with a bad accent, constantly messing up words and parts of speech, it's easy to get immersed. If you're self conscious it's significantly more difficult.

My problem with languages is that I’m very good at phonetics, so I can speak confidently with minimal accent as long as I know what I want to say—I’ve actually done some voice acting in languages that I don’t speak—but my comprehension is terrible . I can read French almost as fast as I read English, but can’t really follow a TV show or carry on a conversation. It’s maddening. Unfortunately, there seem to be more res…

Immersion. Listen to songs, radio, movies, TV shows. Use subtitles if necessary. Make friends who speak that language. Talk to them in that language.

Re: The fertility of the older mind

#102

Post by adrianmonk »

sireat wrote: post #13

I think the article paints too rosy a picture for older minds. Yes you can learn things as you get older but the bar for your achievements gets lower and lower as you age. Let's take chess: There are no cases of a novice starting to learn at the age of 25 and becoming a grandmaster. You need to do some of that deliberate practice at an early age. I suspect the case is the same for math,programming, violin playing etc…

It's true that as a general rule, if you haven't revolutionized (or greatly impacted) your field by age 30, you're likely not going to ever do it.

However, that doesn't mean that the mind of people over 30 doesn't work as well. It may just be that people have different personality types, some people don't care that much about revolutionizing the world, and those who do care do not require all that long to do it.

So by age 30 or so, you're left with two self-selected groups: those who passionately wished to change the world and those who focused on some other priority in life instead.

Re: The fertility of the older mind

#103

Post by wasted_intel »

jwhitlark wrote: post #92
hathawsh wrote: post #38

As a child I was obsessively aware of other people's opinions of me, so I was afraid to make mistakes. Today, I am much better at putting myself in the learning mindset because I have learned a basic truth: learning is essentially the same as temporarily making a fool of myself, but in a safe place . That's how we all learned to walk, talk, and read, after all. If we can learn such complex skills as those then we can…

There was a saying in the military: pain is weakness leaving the body. I always thought the corollary was: feeling stupid is ignorance leaving the mind.

Well said!

Re: The fertility of the older mind

#104

Post by yugoja »

hathawsh wrote: post #38

As a child I was obsessively aware of other people's opinions of me, so I was afraid to make mistakes. Today, I am much better at putting myself in the learning mindset because I have learned a basic truth: learning is essentially the same as temporarily making a fool of myself, but in a safe place . That's how we all learned to walk, talk, and read, after all. If we can learn such complex skills as those then we can…

If I've a child, the one thing I'll teach her/him is not to give a damn about what others think.

I've gone through this as a child and it was paralysing. You always play it safe and that results in you not giving 100%.

Re: The fertility of the older mind

#105

Post by tajen »

yugoja wrote: post #104
hathawsh wrote: post #38

As a child I was obsessively aware of other people's opinions of me, so I was afraid to make mistakes. Today, I am much better at putting myself in the learning mindset because I have learned a basic truth: learning is essentially the same as temporarily making a fool of myself, but in a safe place . That's how we all learned to walk, talk, and read, after all. If we can learn such complex skills as those then we can…

If I've a child, the one thing I'll teach her/him is not to give a damn about what others think. I've gone through this as a child and it was paralysing. You always play it safe and that results in you not giving 100%.

but you need love, don't you? That's when you need others to think positively about you, isn't it?

Re: The fertility of the older mind

#106

Post by yugoja »

tajen wrote: post #105
yugoja wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I've a child, the one thing I'll teach her/him is not to give a damn about what others think. I've gone through this as a child and it was paralysing. You always play it safe and that results in you not giving 100%.

but you need love, don't you? That's when you need others to think positively about you, isn't it?

Love is more about giving than taking.

Re: The fertility of the older mind

#107

Post by kwhitefoot »

ericd wrote: post #43
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing the OP is being downvoted, but I'm not sure why. OP is right. Even in East Asia, plenty of people learn Japanese to watch anime, Chinese to enjoy Chinese classics, medieval stories, CPop, Korean for KPop, etc, etc. South Asia has a very rich intellectual tradition in dozens of languages, and a thriving (albeit scrappy) industry of film in local languages. Don't forget the time-honored trope of learning E…

Do you know if multilingualism is more common in England, Australia, or New Zealand? I've got the (maybe mistaken) impression that it's just not valued as highly in the English Commonwealth as in other countries.

English schools all teach at least one foreign language. But very few students master it because to a good approximation there is no need.

Because English is so widely spoken it is more costly (however you measure it) for an English speaker to learn enough languages to converse than it is for a non-English speaker to learn English; after all, they only have to learn one language while the English speaker will have to learn several to be able to converse with the same number of people.

In my job I talk and correspond with people who speak Castilian Spanish, Brazilian Portuguese, various South American Spanish dialects, Hindi, Gujarati, Arabic, Turkish, Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, German (including Swiss German and Austrian), French, Chinese (Mandarin and several major dialects), Vietnamese, Italian.

I speak passable Norwegian because I live in Norway but there is no chance that I could learn all the other languages, life is too short and all those colleagues speak English.

They Spanish speakers (etc.) don't learn Hindi (etc.) either for just the same reason.

If English weren't so widespread we would have to choose some other auxiliary language. For a thousand years it was Latin, then it was French, now it is English, sometime in the future it might be Mandarin Chinese.

So I don't think multilingualism is necessarily highly valued anywhere, the ability to communicate is valued and speaking the most commonly used auxiliary language gets you a lot of that.

Re: The fertility of the older mind

#109

Post by cableshaft »

mythrwy wrote: post #86

When I reached my early 30's I felt I was getting old. Looking back I believe this is because I was indeed just past the age of physical prime and could feel the slight slowdown. When I reached my early 40's all that went away and I kept forgetting I wasn't in my 20's. (although I certainly am not). I didn't feel "old" anymore, but did start to realize life was short and think more about the future. I don't know if s…

Eh, for me the health problems started once I turned 30 (I'm now in my mid-30s). So yeah, I feel a little old, because I get little reminders multiple times throughout the day. Nothing too bad, at least not yet, but enough that I suspect in ten to twenty years I'll be one of those with more serious problems.

Also even though I'm still pretty darn smart, my mental retrieval speed seems to be a lot slower than it used to be. Has made interviews in particular harder to get through.

However, on the plus side, I didn't really start getting comfortable in my own skin until my thirties either. Started figuring out how to talk to people without getting nervous or assuming they're judging every little thing I say and do, started dating a lot more (even though I was in much better physical shape a long time ago I was too self-conscious or kept making excuses not to take chances back then), and figured out some activities I really enjoy that I probably wouldn't have even attempted in my teens and twenties, so there's that.

Re: The fertility of the older mind

#110

Post by nur0n »

nicklaf wrote: post #87
randcraw wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been said, "You learn nothing from succeeding". To grow, we must learn how to fail well. I agree; the goal is to succeed or fail egolessly: efficiently and productively, without regret, even do it eagerly as one explores a new path... then failure becomes merely a lesson in what not to try, before you try again.

It's true that we ought to be comfortable experimenting without fear of embarrassment, as well as to learn to tolerate more serious failure on occasion, and certainly unexpected failures can serve to draw attention to symptoms of deeper issues worthy of rectifying before they cause you even greater trouble down the road. However, I will point to Richard Hamming's advice to learn from our successes rather than our fai…

As a young person trying to build things which change the world, I appreciate the wisdom found in the link. Thanks!
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