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Facebook says it sold political ads to Russian company during 2016 election

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Facebook says it sold political ads to Russian company during 2016 election

#71

Post by dragonwriter »

balance_factor wrote: post #31

As it is rarely mentioned in the US media, I'd just note that the US pretty openly interferes in Russian elections, and has been doing so for a long time. It's curious this is virtually never mentioned amidst all the accusations of Russia involving itself in US elections. There are many tentacles to the US octopus, for starters you can look at an organization created by and funded by the US congress, the soi disant N…

> I'd just note that the US pretty openly interferes in Russian elections

If Russia had meaningful elections to interfere in to start with, that would concern me a little bit as an American, and a lot if I was a Russian.

Since Russia doesn't, however...

Re: Facebook says it sold political ads to Russian company during 2016 election

#72

Post by CardenB »

balance_factor wrote: post #31

As it is rarely mentioned in the US media, I'd just note that the US pretty openly interferes in Russian elections, and has been doing so for a long time. It's curious this is virtually never mentioned amidst all the accusations of Russia involving itself in US elections. There are many tentacles to the US octopus, for starters you can look at an organization created by and funded by the US congress, the soi disant N…

This is because it's usually discussed with the idea that Russia had actually compromised electronic voting systems in the US. That's different from trying to strengthen a political campaign in another country.

Re: Facebook says it sold political ads to Russian company during 2016 election

#73

Post by dragonwriter »

havetocharge wrote: post #46
raquo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, both Putin and the US have good-to-them reasons to interfere in each others elections. And to interfere in Russian elections. On a serious note, the reason you don't hear about it is because US interference in Russia, whatever that was, didn't come even close to turning Russian elections.

So, if I was to draw a parallel, murder is only bad if it is successful?

> murder is only bad if it is successful?

If it’s nobody gets killed, it’s not murder. I think the principle that attempted murder, unsuccessful conspiracy to commit murder, or soliciting a murder which does not actually occur are lesser offenses than murder is fairly well established.

Re: Facebook says it sold political ads to Russian company during 2016 election

#74

Post by bitJericho »

raquo wrote: post #47
spaceseaman wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> virtually never mentioned I (anecdotally) hear this tidbit in every comments section relating to Russia's involvement in the U.S. election. Almost as if it's a common talking point. Reminds me a lot of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism EDIT: ... And so a conversation was effectively derailed and nothing was gained. Arguing about the validity of Whataboutism or who is doing it isn't the point. It's a deflec…

It's the line that Putin and Lavrov (foreign minister) have been pushing since forever: "you westerners are no better than us, stop shaming us for the shady things that we do". That's an easy way to keep your population happy – tell them that life is no better in other countries. Corruption is everywhere, police state is everywhere, etc. And most Russians believe that.

Well it's true in the us, Russia, china, Australia. That's not everywhere but that is quite a lot of ground.

Re: Facebook says it sold political ads to Russian company during 2016 election

#75

Post by dclowd9901 »

CaptSpify wrote: post #66
spaceseaman wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> virtually never mentioned I (anecdotally) hear this tidbit in every comments section relating to Russia's involvement in the U.S. election. Almost as if it's a common talking point. Reminds me a lot of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism EDIT: ... And so a conversation was effectively derailed and nothing was gained. Arguing about the validity of Whataboutism or who is doing it isn't the point. It's a deflec…

Interesting as this is the first I've heard about it (anecdotal as well). Though I admit most of my news on this comes from non-comment based news sources (tv, etc)

The US has a long and sordid history in interfering in the political affairs of other countries.

That said, our government doesn't subjugate dissenters or lock up journalists. They let our corporations do that.

Re: Facebook says it sold political ads to Russian company during 2016 election

#76

Post by joveian »

roywiggins wrote: post #60
balance_factor wrote: post #31

As it is rarely mentioned in the US media, I'd just note that the US pretty openly interferes in Russian elections, and has been doing so for a long time. It's curious this is virtually never mentioned amidst all the accusations of Russia involving itself in US elections. There are many tentacles to the US octopus, for starters you can look at an organization created by and funded by the US congress, the soi disant N…

Russia doesn't have free or fair elections anyway- how could the US possibly corrupt it any more than Putin cronies personally controlling almost all domestic Russian media?

The US had a major role in creating the environment that lead to Putin gaining power, with a much heavier hand than anything Russia is accused of at this point. Matt Taibbi had a good article on this a little while ago:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/taibbi-what-d...

Re: Facebook says it sold political ads to Russian company during 2016 election

#77

Post by bllguo »

korzun wrote: post #70
spaceseaman wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> virtually never mentioned I (anecdotally) hear this tidbit in every comments section relating to Russia's involvement in the U.S. election. Almost as if it's a common talking point. Reminds me a lot of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism EDIT: ... And so a conversation was effectively derailed and nothing was gained. Arguing about the validity of Whataboutism or who is doing it isn't the point. It's a deflec…

In most cultures, you don't criticize somebody for something while doing the exact opposite. Whataboutism does not apply to 90% of conversations but don't tell that to people who think they are smart by bringing it up. Whataboutism: A) 'You interfered with our elections!!' B) 'You bombed a children hospital! What about that?' NOT Whataboutism: A) 'You interfered with our elections!! YOU HACKED OUR ELECTIONS!!! PUTIN…

Sorry, but I fail to see the difference between your contrived examples. And I'm amused that you think people are being pretentious for bringing up "whataboutism," when the term itself is arguably a colloquialism.

Re: Facebook says it sold political ads to Russian company during 2016 election

#79

Post by dragonwriter »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #43
JamesCoyne wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Federal Election Commission would have something to say: "The Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA) prohibits any foreign national from contributing, donating or spending funds in connection with any federal, state, or local election in the United States, either directly or indirectly. It is also unlawful to help foreign nationals violate that ban or to solicit, receive or accept contributions or donations from th…

> Persons who knowingly and willfully engage in these activities may be subject to fines and/or imprisonment. Who are these "persons"? It can't logically be the foreign nationals who are attempting to help a campaign. They're not under the jurisdiction of US federal law. It also can't logically be the candidates. Otherwise, the obvious tactic would be to provide overt, unrequested aid to the opposition candidate(s) a…

> It can't logically be the foreign nationals who are attempting to help a campaign. They're not under the jurisdiction of US federal law.

Criminal violations of US laws whose prohibition is not expressly territorially restricted that occur outside of the US are successfully prosecuted in US courts with some frequency. Bringing people before the court for prosecution may be challenging where extradition isn't an option, but outright kidnapping from a foreign country or even full-scale military military invasion to do so have occurred.

Re: Facebook says it sold political ads to Russian company during 2016 election

#80

Post by dragonwriter »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #52
pamqzl wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just a foreign individual? I'm a foreign individual who went around making comments on the US election... what's the difference between me doing it privately and a company doing it?

As much as America would like to think their laws apply across the globe, they don't actually have jurisdiction over you. There's nothing they can do to prevent you from talking about the campaign. They do have jurisdiction over the candidate and campaign you endorse, though. If you contacted your candidate and offered them money or services in the hope that they could use your help to get elected, and they accepted…

> As much as America would like to think their laws apply across the globe, they don't actually have jurisdiction over you.

You might want to check with Humberto Álvarez-Machaín (acquitted, sure, but not because the law didn't apply to him) or Manuel Noriega about that.

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