Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–129 of 129 posts

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#121

Post by nl »

usrusr wrote: post #120
nl wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all non-required consumption is about status. Some people just like things. I cycle, and I like Rapha Brevette jerseys. Yes they are expensive, but I like the way they fit and some specific features. I know I could get 99% of the functionality for 40% of the price.

Appreciation and status are not mutually exclusive, in fact they rarely are. I certainly do appreciate all my expensive cycling stuff, but I have long identified it as the outlet where I seem tochannel all my status purchase needs. When everybody around me is riding Shimano, I want Campag and the powermeter to go with that should better be Italian as well. I consider this to be deep in status-land, in fact it is the…

Indeed, the only reason anyone would get Campag is status ;) (Di2 all the way here...)

Regarding Castelli though.. The Perfecto and Gabba are so much (technically) better for cold/wet weather than anything else I'm not sure that status matters.

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#122

Post by nabla9 »

cthalupa wrote: post #24
winter_blue wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The old desire of building your identity around what you own instead of what you do is not going anywhere. Good for them picking up the extra money people have. That's really spot on. We could have an incredibly fulfilling life while living frugally. Writing books, making art, creating new software, doing research, etc. Creating and understanding yourself better can be healing. Physical possessions like this pen is…

>making art >this pen is just so vain, shallow, and meaningless. I hope you can see the contradiction here. These pens are the result of skills honed over time by people who are masters of their craft. These aren't mass produced items, and they will tailor basically every aspect of the pen to the customer. You're paying for the artistry, quality, and customization. These things are more expensive when not mass produc…

>You're paying for the artistry, quality, and customization.

That's not how pricing works. The price of the product is what customers pay, not how much it costs to manufacture.

If you remove brand name and perception of luxury and rarity from these pens and say it's manufactured by some Vietnamese pop and son shop, the value drops into fraction what it was. It might cost $100 and be expensive pen but not hundreds or thousands like now.

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#123

Post by [deleted] »

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #117
hycaria wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of gibberish you just produced is astonishing. You're absolutely unable to give a rationale despite your claims. So reading your posts, I'm still unsure if we should we all get the cheapest option we can get for anything because money can be "better spent helping others" or not. Is buying a car that is not the cheapest one available also a "farcical, individualist act of petty self-congratulation." ? Is it…

If you think anything I said was gibberish then demonstrate it; don't hand-wave at it. I have given a rationale. It was not especially complicated but, then, this is a thread on hacker, and not a manifesto. I don't see why identifying a paradigm case of conspicuous consumption requires that I offer either a comprehensive program of public policy, or a normative philosophy of what one should and should not buy. I can…

[deleted]

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#124

Post by winter_blue »

cthalupa wrote: post #24
winter_blue wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The old desire of building your identity around what you own instead of what you do is not going anywhere. Good for them picking up the extra money people have. That's really spot on. We could have an incredibly fulfilling life while living frugally. Writing books, making art, creating new software, doing research, etc. Creating and understanding yourself better can be healing. Physical possessions like this pen is…

>making art >this pen is just so vain, shallow, and meaningless. I hope you can see the contradiction here. These pens are the result of skills honed over time by people who are masters of their craft. These aren't mass produced items, and they will tailor basically every aspect of the pen to the customer. You're paying for the artistry, quality, and customization. These things are more expensive when not mass produc…

I don't think there's anything wrong about buying that pen; and I do think, yes, the artist has put a lot of effort into making a high-quality pen, so it is a beautiful expression of their creativity.

The point I actually wanted to drill down was: "building your identity around what you own instead of what you do". I could've omitted my sentence on the pen. Buying a pen or any piece of art isn't vain. But it's sad when someone centers the life and builds their identity around physical possessions.

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#125

Post by winter_blue »

coldtea wrote: post #32
winter_blue wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The old desire of building your identity around what you own instead of what you do is not going anywhere. Good for them picking up the extra money people have. That's really spot on. We could have an incredibly fulfilling life while living frugally. Writing books, making art, creating new software, doing research, etc. Creating and understanding yourself better can be healing. Physical possessions like this pen is…

> We could have an incredibly fulfilling life while living frugally. And we could also live frugally while appreciating things of beauty and craft like those pens. I know people who don't have a car (and aren't rich) but chose to spend $5000 on art, or such things. > Writing books, making art, creating new software, doing research, etc. Well, if you have the money -- even enough to live with--, what would be the need…

You have a point. Doing research, writing books, making art, traveling around her world, etc., aren't necessarily a "better way to live". If we're calling it "better", we're passing moralistic judgement on how someone choses to live their life. We shouldn't look down on someone just because they've chosen to live a "basic life", enjoying the simple pleasures of life. Who are we to judge?

But I merely wanted to remark, that to me, personally (and I suspect to other people on HN), acts of creations (like writing, programming, art, etc) bring far more joy and pleasure than physical posessions, binge-watching Netflix shows, and in general consuming, etc. And I assume a lot of people on this site share a similar, "creator" mindset, and likely enjoy similar things. I've sometimes binge-watched TV shows, and regretted the time wasted. I remembered I would've been much happier doing something creative. Ironically, despite it bringing more happiness, it's easy to occasionally slip into doing less-satisfying stuff. That quote in the article was a good reminder.

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#126

Post by notyourday »

winter_blue wrote: post #21
nabla9 wrote: post #19

Nakaya pens are prime example of Veblen good - luxury goods for which the quantity demanded increases as the price increases. The old desire of building your identity around what you own instead of what you do is not going anywhere. Good for them picking up the extra money people have. Of course Nakaya pens are good writing pens, but the quality of pen as a tool levels around $50-$70 price mark. Extra is just collect…

> The old desire of building your identity around what you own instead of what you do is not going anywhere. Good for them picking up the extra money people have. That's really spot on. We could have an incredibly fulfilling life while living frugally. Writing books, making art, creating new software, doing research, etc. Creating and understanding yourself better can be healing. Physical possessions like this pen is…

> Physical possessions like this pen is just so vain, shallow, and meaningless.

Did you type it on a mechanical keyboard?

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#127

Post by nanomonkey »

marbletiles wrote: post #63
lytfyre wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd suggest trying out the Pilot Metropolitan, in a Medium nib. It's not an _Amazing_ pen, but it's got a nice solid brass body, the quality control is very consistent), it's a nice consistent writer, and they sell on Amazon for ~$12. It's my usual recommendation for a "gateway" pen.

If you don't think it's amazing I'd really appreciate your recommendations for my "next level" pen, because I got the Metropolitan and _love_ it. I've bought three already; it's also one of the first I've found flows beautifully even though I'm left-handed. (I prefer the fine nib, that said)

The next level for me is a Pilot Falcon. The nib has a ton of smooth flex that allows for beautiful line width variation. It is spendy, and the extra fines are hard to come by in the states.

That being said, I love my Metropolitan.

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#128

Post by braindouche »

mcguire wrote: post #96
nabla9 wrote: post #19

Nakaya pens are prime example of Veblen good - luxury goods for which the quantity demanded increases as the price increases. The old desire of building your identity around what you own instead of what you do is not going anywhere. Good for them picking up the extra money people have. Of course Nakaya pens are good writing pens, but the quality of pen as a tool levels around $50-$70 price mark. Extra is just collect…

TWSBI is Taiwanese (or perhaps Chinese), and have a certain reputation for structural failures particularly involving the section. Of course, I have a Vac700 because, hey, vacuum filler. It's hard to beat a Pilot Metropolitan at ~$15 (which is a Japanese pen), although many higher-end pens are prettier (and I tend to prefer lighter pens). But the Parker Vacuumatic is the best looking pen ever made.

Pilot 78g beats Pilot Metro in weight and nib quality, in my opinion, though metros are prettier on the whole. I'm particularly fond of the B and BB variations.

Re: A Japanese Pen Maker Anticipated the Fountain-Pen Renaissance

#129

Post by Emma_Goldman »

icebraining wrote: post #107
mcguire wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, paying for resources and labor is "negative for the world"?

I meant that using up those resources to make an ornate pen is the negative for the world. The use of the word "paying" is just because the person is buying it, not making it themselves. I should make it concrete with an example. Say someone buys a $4000 pen, which has a 75% profit margin. Those $3000 were not wasted, they just moved from the buyer's bank account to the company owner's bank account, which could use t…

I'm not sure about this. What is 'attractive' about the pen is that it involves highly valued scarce resources (so much so that, we are told, they have to import more from China). And it involves skilled labour. That doesn't seem a small cost. Lots of prized luxury goods - e.g. sports cars - take up highly skilled labour that, in the counter-factual, could do a lot of good. Also, the type of people who own these companies generally use the money to re-invest, or to purchase useless things for themselves.
Post reply on HN