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The Cryptocurrency Singularity

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Re: The Cryptocurrency Singularity

#41

Post by eosophos »

kylnew wrote: post #9

I think there's a critical discussion about inflation vs deflation missing from this article. Inflation is bad, but so is deflation because it encourages saving your money which, in turn, hurts liquidity in the marketplace (i.e. the amount of cash freely flowing around). Liquidity is essential to keep the economy moving. Isn't what we want really a currency with just a little bit of inflation that keeps people spendi…

This is a really good point. Why would anyone spend their crypto on amazon if it could be worth 30% more in a week?

Re: The Cryptocurrency Singularity

#42

Post by jboggan »

sagitariusrex wrote: post #6

Whenever I read articles like this I'm reminded of this quote by Richard Buckminster Fuller "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." IMHO this is what Bitcoin is all about. Not a get-rich-quick scheme or whatever insults some people throw at it, but a sound, arguably better alternative to fiat currencies. Aside: If you h…

It's not a better alternative to fiat, and here's my best anecdote why:

A few years ago I was in SV trying to network and raise money for the crypto options and futures exchange I had just built. I ended up being invited to a "Bitcoin poker" game at a Google exec's house up in the hills with other Bitcoin entrepreneurs, including Charlie Lee (founder of Litecoin and at the time chief engineer at Coinbase). We were playing Texas Hold 'em with a buy in of I think 100mBTC and feeling very revolutionary for having a poker game with no cash on hand.

Except the buy in took about half an hour. The exec's home was way up in the hills and half of us got very poor cell reception. Those of us using Coinbase (including Charlie Lee I recall) couldn't send our transactions to the pot address because we couldn't receive our 2FA text messages from Coinbase (which cascaded in after we left that night). After a lot of lunacy including running around in the backyard and driveway looking for a spot of coverage, we finally settled on a system of handwritten IOU notes, and most people had to buy in twice and have an appointed stranger promise to send them BTC later.

I would argue that there were few people savvier than our group when it came to Bitcoin, and we were having this experience? I realized I was maybe a little too immersed in the hype to see where Bitcoin was falling short in usability.

Re: The Cryptocurrency Singularity

#43

Post by panarky »

BenoitEssiambre wrote: post #32
panarky wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's worse in every way except for the fact that it is not operated by a central authority National currencies are better for buying a cup of coffee and paying your taxes. But over the last 9 years, Bitcoin has proven to be a far superior store of value. Maybe Bitcoin's role will be as a reserve currency, the "gold standard" of both national currencies and cryptocurrencies. Bitcoin is slow, stable, secure and relia…

You find Bitcoin stable?!

Bitcoin volatility is far lower than other cryptocurrencies.

And despite its 500% price appreciation this year, Bitcoin's volatility is much lower now than in years past.

Here's a chart of volatility since 2010: http://imgur.com/a/CY1j6

Re: The Cryptocurrency Singularity

#44

Post by notahacker »

panarky wrote: post #29
root_axis wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is not "better" than fiat currencies, it's worse in every way except for the fact that it is not operated by a central authority. In terms of convenience, security, and ease of use it is clearly worse. The world does need a "back channel" currency, and bitcoin is a perfect fit for this, but it will never move beyond that because there's simply no reason for the masses to use it.

> it's worse in every way except for the fact that it is not operated by a central authority National currencies are better for buying a cup of coffee and paying your taxes. But over the last 9 years, Bitcoin has proven to be a far superior store of value. Maybe Bitcoin's role will be as a reserve currency, the "gold standard" of both national currencies and cryptocurrencies. Bitcoin is slow, stable, secure and relia…

I don't think you can call a commodity with wild daily price swings a "superior store of value" just because for most of its first few years its been on a speculation-driven bull run.

If what you want is something which holds its value from day to day and is secure against normal levels of inflation, bonds and interest-paying savings accounts have been around for a very long time

Re: The Cryptocurrency Singularity

#45

Post by ericb »

root_axis wrote: post #18
sagitariusrex wrote: post #6

Whenever I read articles like this I'm reminded of this quote by Richard Buckminster Fuller "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." IMHO this is what Bitcoin is all about. Not a get-rich-quick scheme or whatever insults some people throw at it, but a sound, arguably better alternative to fiat currencies. Aside: If you h…

Bitcoin is not "better" than fiat currencies, it's worse in every way except for the fact that it is not operated by a central authority. In terms of convenience, security, and ease of use it is clearly worse. The world does need a "back channel" currency, and bitcoin is a perfect fit for this, but it will never move beyond that because there's simply no reason for the masses to use it.

> it's worse in every way except for the fact that it is not operated by a central authority.

-It is lighter--I can carry it in my head

-It travels faster

-It is not inflated by 2% a year

-It cannot be forged

-It can cross borders

Re: The Cryptocurrency Singularity

#46

Post by ubernostrum »

dsr_ wrote: post #40
arthurjj wrote: post #39

I was hoping this article was going to be a serious look at if an AI could run on a currency like Ethereum. A few months back I wrote a tongue in cheek version about if the DAO hack was to prevent the singularity [1]. But I'd be curious if it were actually possible. 1. http://arthur-johnston.com/essay/2016/06/26/Rokos_DAO.html

If an AI can run on a universal Turing machine, then it can run on a Turing-equivalent platform like ether. That doesn't make it a good or economical idea.

On the contrary, it's a great solution for AI risk: run the AI on a blockchain, and hackers will find plenty of ways to disable it if it starts to get out of hand.

Re: The Cryptocurrency Singularity

#47

Post by kylnew »

millettjon wrote: post #28
kylnew wrote: post #9

I think there's a critical discussion about inflation vs deflation missing from this article. Inflation is bad, but so is deflation because it encourages saving your money which, in turn, hurts liquidity in the marketplace (i.e. the amount of cash freely flowing around). Liquidity is essential to keep the economy moving. Isn't what we want really a currency with just a little bit of inflation that keeps people spendi…

If you live under the influence of a failing government, the liquidity of bitcoin may well be higher that the local failin currency as you can move value to/from the outside world.

This is certainly true. All foreign currencies are not alike in their viability, but this does not address the long term concern of the cryptocurrency itself and its inflationary/deflationary direction.

Re: The Cryptocurrency Singularity

#48

Post by notahacker »

millettjon wrote: post #25
Rmilb wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think its unfair to dismiss the currency aspect of bitcoin. The use case for the developed world is 95% speculation 5% buying contraband online however, for people in Venezuela[1], girls learning to code in Afghanistan[2], or women in Saudi Arabi who can't legally open a bank account, Bitcoin is solving problems that under banked people have now. Of course the ecosystem needs to mature so grandma can use it safely,…

I think it has high utility anywhere outside of the US and EU. There are billions of people that don't have access to stable currencies or reasonable banking.

Sure, but access to reasonable banking is also highly correlated to access to ability to actually buy things with BTC or convert BTC to spendable money.

Re: The Cryptocurrency Singularity

#50

Post by formula1 »

antocv wrote: post #36
ineptech wrote: post #31

I don't understand how someone can talk about making everyday purchases with BTC without addressing the transaction fees and confirmation times. Doesn't it currently cost several dollars to spend a dollar? Is there some reason to think that in the far future confirmation times and transaction fees will trend towards zero?

Bitcoin is not the only cryptocurrency, and not all cryptocurrencies are based on a blockchain data-structure. There are other currencies which are not-inflationary, trustless and decentralized, and many more currencies with various levels of those properties, some are more centralized and require trust in a few in various ways, and some are decentralized trust-less but still inflationary. There is even cryptocurrenc…

I appreciate your sharing awareness of iuch systems. Are you talking about something like iota? Reaching consensus to avoid double spending is a very real problem. Additionally, if we are talking about smart contracts, the order of the transactions can often be very important. Additionally what happens if a contract is interacted with by two parties with neither transactions being aware of the other?
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