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Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet filtering

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Re: Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet filtering

#51

Post by richrichardsson »

allendoerfer wrote: post #42
casiotone wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean aside from the fact that MEPs - the politicians sitting in the EU government - are elected by the general population?

The MEP are not part of the government, they are part of the parliament, which is elected by the public. The EU comission (which is the government), is decided upon by the national governments. Only the head of the comission was elected (indirectly) by the people. Edit: Btw, the head of the comission is more like what the US would think of an actual president. The president, OP talks about is more like a representing…

The EU commission is also indirectly elected by the people in a (maybe tenuous) way. Member state populations elect their national governments, those governments put forward commissioners. They're not that much different to civil servants in national government really.

Re: Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet filtering

#52

Post by allendoerfer »

Pica_soO wrote: post #47
VeejayRampay wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turkey is not part of the EU yet. I don't see how exactly the power "sits with Erdoğan".

Erdogan and the whole European east (Greece, Bulgaria, Ukraine) expansion was always just a big part of the anti-European strategy to binge grow this polit-amobea to death. And it has worked, in so far that it has accelerated the probable demise forward by at least twenty years. Europe was always just a half hearted dream by its elites, who where not even enough into this vision, to share their power with the institu…

> Now after the very same dream, has allowed for the life-standard growth of most of its citizens to disappear - they are in for a rude wake up with extremists devouring the corpse.

What are you even talking about? We just had an Australian guest, who drove freely through Europe using one currency. These states previously fought two world wars against each other.

Re: Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet filtering

#53

Post by notzorbo3 »

Pica_soO wrote: post #47
VeejayRampay wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turkey is not part of the EU yet. I don't see how exactly the power "sits with Erdoğan".

Erdogan and the whole European east (Greece, Bulgaria, Ukraine) expansion was always just a big part of the anti-European strategy to binge grow this polit-amobea to death. And it has worked, in so far that it has accelerated the probable demise forward by at least twenty years. Europe was always just a half hearted dream by its elites, who where not even enough into this vision, to share their power with the institu…

Literally nothing you're saying makes any sense on any level. This looks more like markov-chain generated text.

Re: Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet filtering

#54

Post by snsr »

_fizz_buzz_ wrote: post #35

> follow in the footsteps of China regarding online censorship This phrase makes the article seem overly dramatic. The proposed directive is all about copyright and not about censorship in the common sense. So, if I own the copyright (e.g. I wrote a blog post critizing the European Commission), this directive doesn't apply to me.

Copyright enforcement is censorship.

Re: Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet filtering

#55

Post by stupidcar »

blibble wrote: post #43
casiotone wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean aside from the fact that MEPs - the politicians sitting in the EU government - are elected by the general population?

the appointed commission forms the government (executive), not the parliament the head of the commission is chosen by the parliament, and the head of the commission then appoints commissioners commissioners have a tendency to be disgraced former national politicians who have become unelectable at home (e.g. Jean-Claude Juncker, Peter Mandelson)

The commissioners have to be nominated by member-state governments. The head of the commission doesn't really have much practical power to block them, although he gave give them more or less powerful portfolios.

Re: Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet filtering

#56

Post by germanier »

allendoerfer wrote: post #42
casiotone wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean aside from the fact that MEPs - the politicians sitting in the EU government - are elected by the general population?

The MEP are not part of the government, they are part of the parliament, which is elected by the public. The EU comission (which is the government), is decided upon by the national governments. Only the head of the comission was elected (indirectly) by the people. Edit: Btw, the head of the comission is more like what the US would think of an actual president. The president, OP talks about is more like a representing…

The whole Commission has to be approved by the European Parliament, not just their President. The European Parliament has forced the European Council to remove candidates before approving the Commission multiple time in the past. In that sense the Commission is more directly elected by the people than e.g. German ministers (who can be chosen at will by the Chancellor).

And of course the national governments are elected (indirectly) by the people as well which makes everyone who they elect also indirectly elected (albeit through more indirection).

Re: Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet filtering

#57

Post by Pica_soO »

allendoerfer wrote: post #52
Pica_soO wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Erdogan and the whole European east (Greece, Bulgaria, Ukraine) expansion was always just a big part of the anti-European strategy to binge grow this polit-amobea to death. And it has worked, in so far that it has accelerated the probable demise forward by at least twenty years. Europe was always just a half hearted dream by its elites, who where not even enough into this vision, to share their power with the institu…

> Now after the very same dream, has allowed for the life-standard growth of most of its citizens to disappear - they are in for a rude wake up with extremists devouring the corpse. What are you even talking about? We just had an Australian guest, who drove freely through Europe using one currency. These states previously fought two world wars against each other.

France nearly voted nationalist last vote. All of eastern europe is basically slowly abandoning democracy and demolishing its institutions. Germany is in for a AFD government.

Sorry, but drive through tourism does not paint a accurate picture.

Re: Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet filtering

#58

Post by Pica_soO »

notzorbo3 wrote: post #53
Pica_soO wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Erdogan and the whole European east (Greece, Bulgaria, Ukraine) expansion was always just a big part of the anti-European strategy to binge grow this polit-amobea to death. And it has worked, in so far that it has accelerated the probable demise forward by at least twenty years. Europe was always just a half hearted dream by its elites, who where not even enough into this vision, to share their power with the institu…

Literally nothing you're saying makes any sense on any level. This looks more like markov-chain generated text.

What about over-stretching a expansionist movement as a counter strategy does not make sense?

Europe has grown hard, not smart. It never evaluated what it integrated, and as a result, is more unstable then ever.

Re: Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet filtering

#59

Post by [deleted] »

dalbasal wrote: post #49

China’s example is massive. China’s success has proven that countries can succeed without adopting western liberal freedoms. In fact, success adopting only a small subset of economic and personal freedoms, and none of the political freedoms. The economy is good, the state is stable.. Proof of concept for non-liberal systems. This means freedoms need to be argued for on their own merits. Free speech for its own sake.…

[deleted]

Re: Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet filtering

#60

Post by program_whiz »

Is anyone surprised at this? The internet is a single point which governs the majority of information and communication for the people now. Someone who is in power can potentially eliminate threats and increase their own power/wealth. I would be more surprised to find the opposite -- that the powerful had privately written a memo telling others that privacy matters more than their own power/wealth/safety.

Its like all the "shocking" revelations on the corruption of elections using voting machines -- hardly surprising given that the manipulation guarantees "legitimate" power from the people, the cost is fairly low relative to payoff, and the effect is largely untraceable.

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