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Verizon Up offers rewards in exchange for customers’ personal information

wsj.com

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Re: Verizon Up offers rewards in exchange for customers’ personal information

#101

Post by donarb »

mukmuk wrote: post #85
gnicholas wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it is illegal (at least in some states) to use the card information for anything other than processing the payment. That is, I believe they cannot use it to track you and your purchase. This is one of the main reasons there are loyalty cards — to get you to explicitly consent to tracking. edit: If they are allowed to track based on credit card, this would be a good reason to use Apple Pay, or some other pay…

Apple Pay does not generate a unique card number for every purchase. One number is generated when the card is added to Wallet. This seems to be a common misconception.

They may have been thinking about the transaction code. Every purchase generates a unique one-time transaction code for that vendor for a specific amount. That along with the Device Account Number is transmitted to the payment processor for the purchase.

Re: Verizon Up offers rewards in exchange for customers’ personal information

#103

Post by shostack »

victor106 wrote: post #62

From the article "For every $300 customers spend on their Verizon bills, they receive one Up credit, which can be used for rewards such as Uber rides, four free months of Apple Music or chances to win tickets to see performers such as Lady Gaga." "Verizon makes it clear during the sign-up process what data consumers are giving up: Information about their demographics and interests, what websites they visit, what apps…

Worth noting is that Verizon almost certainly is paying a net amount for those deals than they would actually cost (if anything). They may have revshare arrangements for new customers and wholesale rates for things. I'm curious what the actual cost per user is forecasted to be.

Re: Verizon Up offers rewards in exchange for customers’ personal information

#104

Post by solomatov »

I think this is the way to go with data and privacy, and it might be even better than what GDPR provides. Be open with what you collect, who you share it with, and for how long you store it instead of syphoning all the data you can with shady practices (for example, browser extensions capturing your browsing history). In return provide some real benefits, not just services which are used for free (and which are really cheap for this kind of companies, since they spend most on processing data and showing relevant advertising).

Even better, it creates a competition for your data which will drive down margins of ad companies and give you rewards. In this sense it's similar to what we have with airline and credit card rewards.

Re: Verizon Up offers rewards in exchange for customers’ personal information

#105

Post by raldu »

This is a form of exploitation.

The company gets excellent "data-driven marketing insights" by providing users some carrots.

The users become co-creators of value for the company; and the carrots already cost less than value produced by the collected data.

I doubt the users have the right to withdraw their data completely too. The data of users, which is a result of their labor, stays forever with the company while the carrots are gone.

What it means that the company "shares" how data is used when nobody reads that Terms of Service that gets "changed" all the time anyway?

A better treatment would be each individual user having the right to control over how the data is used and shared with whom, and having the right to remove data at will. As long as we keep thinking that this is a right of a company, rather than users, it will take much longer for many implications of giving up data privacy to be realized.

Re: Verizon Up offers rewards in exchange for customers’ personal information

#106

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

pdimitar wrote: post #94
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #7

Is this not what all rewards programs are? How is this different from the local supermarket rewards card that I have, which "rewards" me with coupons targeted towards my purchasing habits? I'm not sure how to better inform people on these issues.

Your argument is what exactly? The fact that something that leads to gathering of personal information has been done in the past automatically means it's okay to do it in the future? If that is your argument then you are the one who needs informing.

Why is it a problem now when it wasn't before?

Re: Verizon Up offers rewards in exchange for customers’ personal information

#107

Post by unclebucknasty »

cratermoon wrote: post #43
unclebucknasty wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nyah, they still have a singular mission to make money for their shareholders. But, if we started rewarding companies with our business when they exhibit good behavior, that might move the needle.

> Nyah, they still have a singular mission to make money for their shareholders. That's a myth. The idea was invented by Milton Friedman and the Chicago School economists in the 1970s. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/harold-meyerson-the-...

Well, I wasn't speaking to codified law, as referenced in your linked article. However, perhaps I over-simplified a bit in the interest of brevity when I wrote "singular mission".

Still, I think it's commonly understood that for-profit companies are, well, profit-driven. And, that most investors invest with an interest in making money. So, companies are largely oriented in this direction.

Perhaps people like Friedman helped to define what's considered the reasonable expectation here, and it's kind of a self-fulfilling thing.

Re: Verizon Up offers rewards in exchange for customers’ personal information

#108

Post by westmeal »

eighthnate wrote: post #76

It's amazing how the internet used to be a decentralized tool of anonymity, freedom and exchange of information to a centralized tool of monitoring, information siphoning and control. As a kid growing up with the internet in the 90s, I used to laugh at people who said the internet could become a tool of control and monitoring. Now it seems inevitable as the internet becomes more centralized.

It's pretty depressing isn't it?

Re: Verizon Up offers rewards in exchange for customers’ personal information

#109

Post by pdimitar »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #106
pdimitar wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is what exactly? The fact that something that leads to gathering of personal information has been done in the past automatically means it's okay to do it in the future? If that is your argument then you are the one who needs informing.

Why is it a problem now when it wasn't before?

How do you know it wasn't a problem before? Historically, us the common folk can rarely if ever do anything about such things.

Still doesn't make it okay. It was never okay.

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