How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence • Hacker News Board

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#131

Post by odessacubbage » Wed, Sep 06, 2017, 10:38 AM UTC

pamqzl wrote: post #55

AstralStorm wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what kinds of crimes are you willing to look at? Murders and abductions are probably the worst and easiest to track. Robbery much harder and often unreported or reported as bullying.

Honestly I'd be far more worried about my kid being hit by a car than being a victim of any crime. Or maybe they try something stupid (we all did stupid things as kids and I don't expect my kids to be smarter than I was) and wind up drowning in the river or falling off something.

i got hit by a car, walking home from the double-transfer public bus i rode alone to & from elementary school everyday. it increased my pain threshold dramatically which effectively ended the bullying i'd been subject to up to that point. the whole experience was a net positive.

>Or maybe they try something stupid

that's the fastest way to become smart in my experience. humans are remarkably adept at not dying and even ballsy kids can judge their competence well enough if they're given the opportunity to learn their limits.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#132

Post by dsfyu404ed » Wed, Sep 06, 2017, 10:39 AM UTC

bisRepetita wrote: post #34

new299 wrote: post #21

I'm sympathetic. But given the article is against "fact-free" parenting. I didn't find the data presented very compelling. Basically you'd need to know how common crime against children traveling unsupervised on buses in a similar scenario. The closest example presented is kids in New York riding the subway, so presenting stats on that would be useful. I'd also like more details on the Japanese example, it's honestly…

I have no idea how anyone could abduct 5 kids at once in a public place. Those little monsters scream loud and run fast.

I would try a net.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#133

Post by dsfyu404ed » Wed, Sep 06, 2017, 10:41 AM UTC

ArchD wrote: post #38

The way blame gets assigned and risk gets assessed by human society is often quite pathological. In a typical setting, there are options A & B. As an example, let A be the option to allow young kids to ride independently on a bus and B the option to legislate against letting young kids ride independently on a bus. The cost of A seems high to human emotions and the lazy thinker, typically involving rare but high-impac…

Wash rinse repeat for 90% of not specific laws about behavior in a noncommercial setting...

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#134

Post by brepl » Wed, Sep 06, 2017, 11:06 AM UTC

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #121

sametmax wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He really is an atypical case here. Not in my experience. I France we have politicians lying, cheating and even being condemned coming back all the time.

You don't even need to go as far as France. RI and NJ do that too.

> You don't even need to go as far as France.

The implication in the comment above is that he's already in France. So going to RI or NJ would be going further.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#135

Post by bambax » Wed, Sep 06, 2017, 11:14 AM UTC

xroche wrote: post #6

Over-protecting kids is probably not the main point here. Bureaucrats tend to focus on only one goal: not taking any responsibility or risks. Letting kids being independent is a risk for them, even if this is for their own good. And you can carefully explain to them the case, with scientific evidences, but they are not accountable for anything, and won't bother to change their mind. Because there is a second thing bu…

But who gave them this power? I could be wrong but I don't think in most European countries the government can take kids away from parents for anything other than outright physical abuse or rape.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#136

Post by daemin » Wed, Sep 06, 2017, 11:15 AM UTC

bizgreen9000 wrote: post #22

I find it incredible that these bureaucrats routinely threaten people with taking away their children. Aren't even the most reasonable people going to get dangerous when faced with that kind of a situation? I don't have kids but I can't even imagine.

Yes, but they'll most likely have a Police escort when they come and take your children away. If you want to escalate it further then for sure you will not be getting your children back under your care any time soon.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#137

Post by bambax » Wed, Sep 06, 2017, 11:19 AM UTC

esaym wrote: post #2

>Attorney General, and determined that children under 10 years old could not be unsupervised in or outside the home Good night... glad I live in America.

I believe America is worse on this matter.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#138

Post by CodeWriter23 » Wed, Sep 06, 2017, 11:19 AM UTC

I had to stop reading when the father of FIVE starts talking about sustainability. He might have some credibility in my eyes if he had a vasectomy after 2 kids. And even more if he snipped them at 1.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#139

Post by deusex_ » Wed, Sep 06, 2017, 11:20 AM UTC

nicklaf wrote: post #3

Any countries out there where this kind of helicopter parenting isn't endemic in the culture?

Europe is a lot more relaxed and kids are given a lot more freedom. When we were kids we just were expected to wait for the other sibling and take a 20min tram ride home together. At 15 I probably started spending nights not at home occasionally (I also never caused any real trouble, so we built trust with my parents).

Though there was a difference if you as a Central European visited France for example. The kids were way behind us in being relaxed and confident without parents around.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#140

Post by wink » Wed, Sep 06, 2017, 11:23 AM UTC

captainmuon wrote: post #47

geff82 wrote: post #5

While helicopter parenting is a thing here in Germany, too, it is still possible to use your sane judgement as a parent for a lot of things. My daughter is not yet in school (so I am not into a peer group that talks about such stuff), but I see the 7-year-old neighbour kids walking to school without supervision, just as it has been the custom here in my own childhood. I have to admit there are fewer of those on the s…

Yes, exactly. In fact, kids are usually taught the way to elementary school in the last year of Kindergarten (for the non-Germans: "Kindergarten" here is approximately pre-school in the US. It is where kids go until they are about 6.) The social expectation is that every kid walks or takes public transportation (unless that is not possible). There are usually no dedicated school buses, but the public buses have extra…

Interesting, first time I hear that thing about walking to elementary school in Kindergarden. Growing up in Munich (in the 80s) this was definitely not the case, least of all because not all children from the Kindergarden would end up in the same elementary school.