Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

5kids1condo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 193 posts

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#71

Post by WillPostForFood »

galfarragem wrote: post #61
gwatch wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This won't happen today in San Francisco city, because of decrease in social capital. I live downtown and I will not anyone's kids to wander around like that. First, you'll be lucky if MUNI driver is even remotely friendly, then there are druggies on the street, and so on. Illegal immigration, homelessness fueled by liberal/leftist policies, crime, gangs, drug trade have turned the city into a place quite unrecogniza…

Translating parent comment and playing devil's advocate: What did happen in the western world that made parents not allowing their kids to wander around? He proposed one explanation in a contrived way: leftist politics. Instead of mindless downvoting, how would you explain it?

General increase in risk aversion. Same reason there are seat belt laws, helmet laws, firecrackers are illegal, you have to take your shoes off to get on a plane, lawn darts are banned, and people fear second hand smoke. To tie it back to the parent comment, there is data that shows more individualistic people take more risks, so perhaps it is tied to the decline of individualism, and religion. Regarding kids specifically, people use to have more, so they would learn that they are pretty durable after raising a few. When you only have one, all your eggs are in one basket, so there is a greater tendency to overprotect.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#72

Post by walterstucco »

pamqzl wrote: post #55
AstralStorm wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what kinds of crimes are you willing to look at? Murders and abductions are probably the worst and easiest to track. Robbery much harder and often unreported or reported as bullying.

Honestly I'd be far more worried about my kid being hit by a car than being a victim of any crime. Or maybe they try something stupid (we all did stupid things as kids and I don't expect my kids to be smarter than I was) and wind up drowning in the river or falling off something.

> Honestly I'd be far more worried about my kid being hit by a car

But why?

Is it common for them to be hit by cars?

Is it safer for them to go to school with parents?

And if someone hits you while you are trying to protect your kid, is it less traumatic?

And if while you take them to school you hit someone else's kid, is it less traumatic?

Is it common for kids to drown or fall and die while parents are not there?

From what I see it is common for adults to drown while they're trying to save someone else (usually not kids, but other adults)

If you start thinking about everything that _could_ happen, you wouldn't let your kids go out

Kids spend a lot of time alone and still they manage to survive

Why going to school should be any different?

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#74

Post by [deleted] »

averagewall wrote: post #50

What must be the most painful part of this is that he's in a weak position having shared custody. A normal parent could just give the middle finger and they'll never have their kids taken away for a single minor behaviour like that. But someone with tenuous custody has to bend over backwards to look like they're doing it right. It seems he could actually lose his kids quite easily because they have another home ready…

[deleted]

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#75

Post by walterstucco »

oblio wrote: post #24
dwaltrip wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the post: > And the odds of your child being kidnapped by a stranger on the bus? Incredibly long. A 2003 study in Canada found just one case nationwide of a stranger abducting a child, in the entire two years prior. I personally found the article very compelling. This kind of mindless fear, in direct contradiction of clear evidence, makes my blood boil.

Every "bet" consideration needs to include possible loss, not only the odds. Losing your child is for many people not that far off from losing their own life, so people tend to react in a very cautious way.

> Losing your child is for many people not that far off from losing their own life,

Usually losing a kid is due untreatable diseases and bad parenting (like driving them to school without taking proper safety measures and suffer the consequences of an accident)

There's no evidence that going to school alone is more dangerous than staying home with grandpa's guns

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#76

Post by tomohawk »

new299 wrote: post #21

I'm sympathetic. But given the article is against "fact-free" parenting. I didn't find the data presented very compelling. Basically you'd need to know how common crime against children traveling unsupervised on buses in a similar scenario. The closest example presented is kids in New York riding the subway, so presenting stats on that would be useful. I'd also like more details on the Japanese example, it's honestly…

The point is, this guy shouldn't have to prove that it is safe. Rather, the state should have to prove that he did something wrong, as defined by a law. If the state thinks that this is wrong, the state should provide evidence that it is wrong and get a law passed. The state in this case is acting like a terrorist organization. It has no law on its side, and is at least implicitly threatening to take away the kids.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#78

Post by tempestn »

new299 wrote: post #25
dwaltrip wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the post: > And the odds of your child being kidnapped by a stranger on the bus? Incredibly long. A 2003 study in Canada found just one case nationwide of a stranger abducting a child, in the entire two years prior. I personally found the article very compelling. This kind of mindless fear, in direct contradiction of clear evidence, makes my blood boil.

"A 2003 study in Canada found just one case nationwide of a stranger abducting a child, in the entire two years prior." Without knowing if, and how many children rode the bus alone, this information is not meaningful.

Of course it is. One incident in two years, out of a population of tens of millions, is effectively zero. Regardless of how many kids ride the bus, if there were a significant number of predators out there waiting to abduct children, there are sufficient opportunities available that it would happen with some regularity. It's not for lack of unsupervised bus riders that it's such a rare occurrence.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#79

Post by icebraining »

galfarragem wrote: post #61
gwatch wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This won't happen today in San Francisco city, because of decrease in social capital. I live downtown and I will not anyone's kids to wander around like that. First, you'll be lucky if MUNI driver is even remotely friendly, then there are druggies on the street, and so on. Illegal immigration, homelessness fueled by liberal/leftist policies, crime, gangs, drug trade have turned the city into a place quite unrecogniza…

Translating parent comment and playing devil's advocate: What did happen in the western world that made parents not allowing their kids to wander around? He proposed one explanation in a contrived way: leftist politics. Instead of mindless downvoting, how would you explain it?

Plenty of countries in Europe are way more leftist than the US, yet we still have kids wandering around. Seems like a very poor correlation.

Re: How Fact-Free Parenting Policies Rob Kids' Independence

#80

Post by Chris2048 »

devwastaken wrote: post #57
gwatch wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This won't happen today in San Francisco city, because of decrease in social capital. I live downtown and I will not anyone's kids to wander around like that. First, you'll be lucky if MUNI driver is even remotely friendly, then there are druggies on the street, and so on. Illegal immigration, homelessness fueled by liberal/leftist policies, crime, gangs, drug trade have turned the city into a place quite unrecogniza…

>Illegal immigration, homelessness fueled by liberal/leftist policies, crime, gangs, drug trade have turned the city into a place quite unrecognizable compared to 1960. Sounds like something that should be backed up by a data point if you're looking to contribute something to the discussion. >Leftism is a cancer, and a road to third world culture, paved by good intentions. You've given exactly one point, with no refe…

> Sounds like something that should be backed up

Why? People state their opinions and experiences on HN all the time without such a requirement.

Post reply on HN