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“Google: it is time to return to not being evil”

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Re: “Google: it is time to return to not being evil”

#211

Post by fbender »

dabockster wrote: post #140
Endy wrote: post #53

Well, if I were the team at Vivaldi, I would be using as little of Google's tech until THEY bend. After all, Opera 15+ and Vivaldi now both use Google's web engine. That feels like a major mistake to me, because it constantly tells Google, "regardless of what we say, we need you and we'll give in to your demands". Attacking Google just turns into biting the hand that feeds when you rely on them not only for revenue,…

> a new and proprietary web engine that's not beholden to Apple, Google, Mozilla, or any of the major firms I wouldn't necessarily go as far as proprietary, but I agree everywhere else. Now that we essentially have a bunch of Chrome flavors, I'm finding myself missing the browser wars of the mid 2000s. Real competition producing real results.

Have a look at what Mozilla is doing with Gecko (Project Quantum) and Servo. Even Microsoft is moving in a much better direction with Edge in the recent years, doing a lot of work and opening up parts of the engine.

I don't know why parent put Mozilla into the same bucket as Apple and Google, they are not comparable in any conceivable way.

Re: “Google: it is time to return to not being evil”

#212

Post by K0SM0S »

saagarjha wrote: post #41
amirmasoudabdol wrote: post #30

YouTube website does everything to be unusable on the iPad. They don't use the default player. They won't save your settings if you use Safari. They do not allow full screen video. Even when you request the desktop site, they resist to load the video properly in first few trials. They are being as annoying as they can!

That's because they want you using their app, which they have more control over and where they can disable features like background playback and Picture in Picture which they can then charge you for.

On a side related note, YouTube Red still isn't available worldwide, so most people outside the US don't even have the option to pay for background/PiP. It's a subpar user experience by design and Google apparently doesn't care at all (it's been years now). Also, still no speed control on the mobile YouTube app. All of this being true even on Android O.

As most people, I cannot avoid using YouTube, but everytime I need background play of podcast-like content, I default to another activity (eg actual podcast app, an audiobook, whatever). Typical case is when you need to communicate at the same time, or do 'stuff' while listening. When you add it all up, that's hours everyday lost from me. And I'm just one user, iirc the majority of human beings don't live in the US...

It's frustrating that you can't even pay to resolve the issue, let alone knowing that they themselves placed a restriction (background play) that didn't exist in the first place. Reminds me of the worst from the likes of MS, Apple, Oracle, Verizon.

Re: “Google: it is time to return to not being evil”

#213

Post by dreamcompiler »

rconti wrote: post #151
Jonnax wrote: post #12

Google are really shitty with their web browser especially on mobile. If you run Firefox you get a stripped down version of Google Search also with no infinite scrolling for images and low resolution. Use a user agent spoofer like this: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/chrome-ua-on-... And it seems to work fine on Firefox. I'm sure their official excuse is that they only support WebKit based browsers on…

All one has to do is look at the abomination that Google turned Images Search into. Or the Print dialog in Chrome. or...

...Maps, which used to not suck.

I suspect "Vice President Penis Syndrome" is in effect here, where a new VP comes on board and feels the need to piss on a product to make his mark and/or show everybody he's more of a man than his predecessor.

Re: “Google: it is time to return to not being evil”

#215

Post by sogen »

kuschku wrote: post #186
sogen wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the return of 90s "best viewed with IE" but for Chrome...

A list of sites affected by this: Google Translate ("You are using an outdated browser, Upgrade now to the safer Chrome with integrated translation!" (on Firefox 57...) Google Inbox (during the launch) YouTube (the new redesign) Allo (atm Chrome-Only) Hangouts (Chrome-Only) Earth (Chrome-Only)

And Google.com has for years shown a pop-up to switch to Chrome

Re: “Google: it is time to return to not being evil”

#216

Post by bzbarsky »

Endy wrote: post #208
fbender wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla did multiple times and is doing it, sometimes even doing the work that Google is supposed to do (see e.g. the Webcompat project [1]). The point is, this problem is basically unsolvable without having the reach of Google and thus everone (incl. Microsoft!) is forced to spoof the UA. See also https://webcompat.com/

No company is "supposed" to do anything in my eyes; and I'd rather if they all did a lot less that wasn't defined as "produce this one very specific product that does one thing well". If anything, the agencies that are supposed to do anything for the infrastructure of the Internet are the various governments and the UN, to support an open Web. The problem is that at present the US, UK, Russia, China, North Korea, and…

The problem with filing lawsuits is that "anti-competitive behavior" is typically not treated as illegal by recent US courts unless there's demonstrable consumer harm in the form of higher prices. Which there is not with products that are distributed for free...

Re: “Google: it is time to return to not being evil”

#217

Post by freehunter »

akerl_ wrote: post #118
freehunter wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's completely possible for someone to have immense market power and not use it for evil. I mean Apple is the richest company in the world but they choose to compete in very niche markets, and hasn't actually completely dominated a market since the iPod even though they easily could with their massive stockpiles of money. Instead of trying to bend the Internet to the point of breaking, Google could just... not do th…

There are posts on this site at least once a week about something Apple is doing that folks feel to be "evil", just like Google.

I don't think that removing the headphone jack from a phone is really "evil", no matter how you feel about headphone jacks.

Re: “Google: it is time to return to not being evil”

#218

Post by freehunter »

jiggunjer wrote: post #127
freehunter wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's completely possible for someone to have immense market power and not use it for evil. I mean Apple is the richest company in the world but they choose to compete in very niche markets, and hasn't actually completely dominated a market since the iPod even though they easily could with their massive stockpiles of money. Instead of trying to bend the Internet to the point of breaking, Google could just... not do th…

Apple is in a niche market? You mean Starbucks clients?

Compare the install base of iPhones to Android worldwide. Compare the install base of Macs to PCs worldwide. They could make a $200 computer like almost every other laptop manufacturer, but they choose not to. They could make a $200 smartphone like many other manufacturers, but they choose not to.

Re: “Google: it is time to return to not being evil”

#219

Post by freehunter »

golfer wrote: post #198
FreezerburnV wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget that Microsoft publicly offered to work directly with Google to get the Youtube app working correctly according to what Google wanted, ads and all. The only reason it "stripped" ads originally was because Google didn't work with them to add them in the first place. Also keep in mind that there were, at the time, other Youtube apps that worked (to some extent) just fine, and Google didn't go after them. I…

Ahh, the public offer to help. Great PR move that ignores all Microsoft's other actions against Google throughout time. Competition is fair game. Consider: - the existence of Bing - Every version of IE and Windows starting from over a decade ago has made it more difficult to change the default search engine from Bing. Comically difficult, even - Microsoft's creation/funding of entities like Fairsearch.org, whose prim…

Consider:

Microsoft got forcibly fucked by the US government for unfairly damaging their competition. Is that really the path that Google wants to follow?

Re: “Google: it is time to return to not being evil”

#220

Post by Eridrus »

Jonnax wrote: post #12

Google are really shitty with their web browser especially on mobile. If you run Firefox you get a stripped down version of Google Search also with no infinite scrolling for images and low resolution. Use a user agent spoofer like this: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/chrome-ua-on-... And it seems to work fine on Firefox. I'm sure their official excuse is that they only support WebKit based browsers on…

Is web browser support even relevant on android when there is a google search app?
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