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At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

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Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#71

Post by archagon »

Banthum wrote: post #52
archagon wrote: post #22

If your politics, or the beliefs of those who share your politics, make your coworkers feel hurt, scared, and angry, then I see absolutely no reason to bring them to your workplace. It's basic human interaction 101. And sorry, but insisting that people grow a thicker skin won't work, because that's not how people operate. I discuss controversial topics in person with my close friends, and I don't feel any poorer for…

Let's imagine we work together. I say your politics, whatever they are, make me feel hurt, scared, and angry. Obviously you can't argue with this; my feelings are my feelings and are thus inarguable. Therefore, by your basic rule, you are no longer allowed to even state any of your political beliefs, because such would make me feel hurt, scared, and angry. And it doesn't matter what your beliefs are or how you arrive…

> Now I've got total control over the speech of anyone around me. I can shut down anyone, making any statement on any topic.

Not really. This only works if your opinions are part of the current zeitgeist. If not, then nobody will really care what some loner is hurt by, and will probably just avoid talking to you, period.

> At a certain point, people do need to be told to grow a thicker skin.

OK, but that doesn't work. It only makes people angrier and even more determined to exclude you.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#72

Post by valvar »

classybull wrote: post #8

Aren't these the same sort that will moan ceaselessly about the ludicrousness of "safe spaces" and "snowflakes"? I don't particularly care. You're free to speak your mind. You're not free to force people around you agree. Either get over it, or move on. I hear welding is an in-demand industry and I bet they'll find more receptivity to their viewpoints there.

I don't think you understand the conservative objection to 'safe spaces', or else you are intentionally misinterpreting. The problem with 'safe spaces' is precisely that they hinder free discourse and mutual interaction between people with differing opinions, not that they prevent people's feelings from getting hurt. You don't get to redefine the concept.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#73

Post by api »

chrisabrams wrote: post #2

I grew up in Texas but worked in Silicon Valley for a few years. One of the toughest adjustments was going from a small conservative town to a major liberal populace. It was astonishing the number of people who got angry _at me_ for having a different opinion then they did. At one workplace I saw two coworkers get into a fist fight because the liberal was "offended" that the conservative differed on a viewpoint. Go t…

I was going to ask: what happens in small town Texas if you are an atheist, don't support the war, support a woman's right to have an abortion, etc.?

It's been my experience that each region has its dominant sociopolitical culture and that there are always people who are unable to see beyond that and who become angry when confronted by anything other.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#74

Post by LyndsySimon »

classybull wrote: post #8

Aren't these the same sort that will moan ceaselessly about the ludicrousness of "safe spaces" and "snowflakes"? I don't particularly care. You're free to speak your mind. You're not free to force people around you agree. Either get over it, or move on. I hear welding is an in-demand industry and I bet they'll find more receptivity to their viewpoints there.

I find a lot of irony here.

First of all, you are associating conservative beliefs with the trades. That's exactly the sort of thing that is being brought up here - you're effectively saying that the left claims white collar jobs, particularly those in tech, and that anyone who doesn't fit that mold shouldn't even bother.

Secondly, you're implying that welding is a lower-status field. Nothing could be further from the truth - of the two people that I know that became welders after high school, one is now an underwater welder working on offshore oil platforms and the other has specialized in heavy industrial stuff. Both of them make more than any developer I know, including myself.

> Aren't these the same sort that will moan ceaselessly about the ludicrousness of "safe spaces" and "snowflakes"?

One of the distinguishing characteristics of those on the right is the importance of equal application of the rules.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#75

Post by classybull »

anbende wrote: post #45
brookside wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That anger could be reasonable or not, depending on your opinions.

Anger at another perspective might be argued to be reasonable. There are some pretty abhorrent perspectives in the world. Getting into a fistfight with someone because they hold a different point of view, no matter how heinous, is absolutely and unequivocally unacceptable. The idea that there are points of view (not actions or laws but ideas) that warrant violence is a large and growing problem.

Not to Godwin it or anything, but...

Wasn't the passivity and meekness of the opposition the exact reason fascists were able to rise relatively easily in the intrawar period?

Personally, I think the concept that there aren't ideas worth throwing a punch over is equally as repugnant as saying you should punch anyone you disagree with.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#76

Post by jimbokun »

"(That’s in a sector where 76 percent of technical jobs are held by men, and blacks and Latinos make up only 5 percent of the workforce.)"

I think this is part of the problem.

Leadership at Silicon Valley companies want to think of themselves as enlightened and egalitarian when it comes to issues of race and gender. However, in reality, they have created an environment made up mostly of white, Indian, and Asian men.

So they are super sensitive and want to signal their virtue by cracking down on workers lower on the totem pole who seem insensitive to these diversity issues, because it's easier than making actual changes to improve diversity.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#77

Post by staticelf »

AndrewDucker wrote: post #25
staticelf wrote: post #3

Honestly, I am not the least surprised. I don't know if anyone is really. Because never before has there been so much hate towards simply holding different opinions. People actively share "if you like x you can remove me as your friend" shit on facebook, companies fire people for expressing their political views and media companies "choose a side" more then ever. And don't tell me Google isn't. Just look at Youtube w…

If someone is "simply holding different opinions" that people should have lesser rights, or be treated differently because of how they were born, then we shouldn't really be surprised that people are upset by that. I'm not seeing hatred towards people for arguing over correct levels of import taxes. I'm seeing it because they're backing politicians who are actively causing harm to real human beings.

What is harm? Lowering taxes could for example cause a lot of harm too indirectly if those taxes went to something important.

I don't like religion for example and would like organized religion to be illegal in my country. If I went on TV and said this I bet this would be a very unpopular opinion and people would most likely send me tons of death threats. I think this mentality is stupid and if you are upset the correct assement is not being a child about it but actually proving me wrong by arguments and facts.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#78

Post by gipp »

jimbokun wrote: post #32
AndrewDucker wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone is "simply holding different opinions" that people should have lesser rights, or be treated differently because of how they were born, then we shouldn't really be surprised that people are upset by that. I'm not seeing hatred towards people for arguing over correct levels of import taxes. I'm seeing it because they're backing politicians who are actively causing harm to real human beings.

And here is a sterling example of the level of political discourse to which we have sunk. The post you reply to doesn't even list any specific political opinions, yet you already insinuate this person is a racist bigot. Well done.

> yet you already insinuate this person is a racist bigot

Where on Earth did you read that into his post? He said those are the kinds of opinions that tend to elicit those responses, not anything about the OP.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#79

Post by sharemywin »

chrisabrams wrote: post #2

I grew up in Texas but worked in Silicon Valley for a few years. One of the toughest adjustments was going from a small conservative town to a major liberal populace. It was astonishing the number of people who got angry _at me_ for having a different opinion then they did. At one workplace I saw two coworkers get into a fist fight because the liberal was "offended" that the conservative differed on a viewpoint. Go t…

Funny, wonder how many moderate liberals would beg to have him back as president now. Myself included.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#80

Post by [deleted] »

ams6110 wrote: post #59
AndrewDucker wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A vote to treat people badly is _absolutely_ a good reason to be angry at someone. If you're voting to take away people's healthcare, or to discriminate against them based on who they love, or their gender, then of course they are angry!

Still no excuse for physical violence. Votes are how we make decisions in our society. You don't always win. You can argue your position all you want, but you don't get to intimidate others with violence.

[deleted]
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