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At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

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Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#61
post #40

I grew up in Texas but worked in Silicon Valley for a few years. One of the toughest adjustments was going from a small conservative town to a major liberal populace. It was astonishing the number of people who got angry _at me_ for having a different opinion then they did. At one workplace I saw two coworkers get into a fist fight because the liberal was "offended" that the conservative differed on a viewpoint. Go t…

There is a reason why voting machines have curtains. If you resent people judging you for how you vote, just don't tell them.

Don't ask. Don't tell.

It wasn't a great policy before. It's not great now. Hiding who you are to avoid ridicule doesn't solve the problem. If the majority opinion is safe to express, but your opinion isn't, then being forced to hide doesn't actually solve the problem. Even if you hide your views, you may get asked why you don't support the majority's viewpoints.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#62
post #4

I think this is all circles of America right now. I'm a typical social leaning west coast tech dude and I cannot be pragmatic in my conversations and points about the state of affairs because I'm immediately a supporter of this that or the next thing. Constructive public discourse is dead?

One cannot even seem to have 'conservative' stances on one thing and 'liberal' stances on others. And, no, I'm not libertarian either. The US had a great opportunity to elect a third party last time around, yet decided to dig in its heels more on candidates that were unpopular and take out their spite against 'the other side'.

So you can't even debate an issue. You have to take a 'side' on an issue.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#63
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That anger could be reasonable or not, depending on your opinions.

No, it's not reasonable. It's a vote, not justification to throw fists or anything in between, even.

Throwing fists is violence, not anger.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#64
I think employees could use some training on how liberals and conservatives think very differently. When I became familiar with Jonathan Haidt and his moral foundations theory, I was able to better understand where conservatives are coming from, and even became a lot better at persuading.

For example, when talking about confederate statues coming down, a conservative will respond to arguments around why it's traditional and patriotic to remove those statues (along with why it's fair) whereas a liberal will concentrate only on why it's fair. Make an argument that focuses only on the fairness aspect and the conservative will remain unconvinced and the liberal will think the conservative is a horrible person, because the liberal heavily values fairness.

Liberals are most sensitive to the Care and Fairness moral foundations and conservatives are equally sensitive to all the first five foundations. I think the sixth foundation was added for libertarians.

- Care: cherishing and protecting others; opposite of harm.

- Fairness or proportionality: rendering justice according to shared rules; opposite of cheating.

- Loyalty or ingroup: standing with your group, family, nation; opposite of betrayal.

- Authority or respect: submitting to tradition and legitimate authority; opposite of subversion.

- Sanctity or purity: abhorrence for disgusting things, foods, actions; opposite of degradation.

A sixth foundation, Liberty or oppression, was theorized by Jonathan Haidt in The Righteous Mind chapter 8.

Once you understand that the other person is thinking about the problem in a very different way than you, you can stop talking past each other and start getting to a sort of understanding.

Haidt's TED talk is a fun introduction to the subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs41JrnGaxc

As a final note, I wonder if conservatives could use their own experiences to develop some much needed empathy for minorities and women in STEM? These groups seem to be at odds right now, but they actually have a lot in common when it comes to feeling like an outsider who will never fully be accepted. Likewise, minorities and women might be missing an opportunity for diversity allies because they are writing off conservatives as being against their cause without ever trying to look for common ground.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone is "simply holding different opinions" that people should have lesser rights, or be treated differently because of how they were born, then we shouldn't really be surprised that people are upset by that. I'm not seeing hatred towards people for arguing over correct levels of import taxes. I'm seeing it because they're backing politicians who are actively causing harm to real human beings.

And here is a sterling example of the level of political discourse to which we have sunk. The post you reply to doesn't even list any specific political opinions, yet you already insinuate this person is a racist bigot. Well done.

GP is not insinuating that person is a racist, they're pointing out that some 'political' views are really hard to be civil about. For exactly that reason they stir up very strong feelings.

I've seen strong feeling (but relatively civil discussion) about topics like handling North Korea or immigration. Things like taxes tend to be far more civil as GP pointed out.

There was absolutely no need to call GP a bigot.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#66

If your politics, or the beliefs of those who share your politics, make your coworkers feel hurt, scared, and angry, then I see absolutely no reason to bring them to your workplace. It's basic human interaction 101. And sorry, but insisting that people grow a thicker skin won't work, because that's not how people operate. I discuss controversial topics in person with my close friends, and I don't feel any poorer for…

This is a two-way street. As a Christian, I get upset when I hear my employer promote Bhuddist values (inviting Bhuddist monks on-site to otherwise-nonreligious corporate events) while also parading their role in defeating legislation to protect religious clergy who hold traditionally-Christian beliefs from being sued over their beliefs. This communicates to me both "you're the enemy, and we are working hard to make you vulnerable" and "these others who are directly opposite you are our favorites."

The CEO has brought his religion to the workplace to the detriment of many of his employees, and as a result I am both hurt (by being "enemied") and scared (for the long-term existence of 1st-Amendment protection for my religious practice, given the company's legal activism). Is it still true in this case that "insisting that people grow a thicker skin won't work"?

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#67
post #7

I don't think it's even just conservatives, anyone who has an even slightly different opinion than the golden calves US libertarian society has set up is shunned. It's closer to religion at this point. I consider myself liberal, but (and?) I disagree on various topics, mostly on affirmative action. However, if you think that introducing more bias is a bad way to solve existing bias, you're a racist. It's not "I disag…

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Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#68
post #39

Honestly, I am not the least surprised. I don't know if anyone is really. Because never before has there been so much hate towards simply holding different opinions. People actively share "if you like x you can remove me as your friend" shit on facebook, companies fire people for expressing their political views and media companies "choose a side" more then ever. And don't tell me Google isn't. Just look at Youtube w…

When I see posts in my facebook feed that say unfriend me if you believe x, I always unfriend them even if I don't believe x. If you are not tolerant of different points of view I really don't want to be your friend.

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Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#69
post #39

Honestly, I am not the least surprised. I don't know if anyone is really. Because never before has there been so much hate towards simply holding different opinions. People actively share "if you like x you can remove me as your friend" shit on facebook, companies fire people for expressing their political views and media companies "choose a side" more then ever. And don't tell me Google isn't. Just look at Youtube w…

When I see posts in my facebook feed that say unfriend me if you believe x, I always unfriend them even if I don't believe x. If you are not tolerant of different points of view I really don't want to be your friend.

There are some viewpoints that should not be tolerated though.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#70

Can't we just keep politics out of the workplace? Who really wants to sit next to the guy who's going to spend a half an hour telling me about my company's “social justice agenda”?

I agree, I avoid talking politics or religion in the workplace. For some people it’s difficult, because who they voted for in the last election or things that happen at church are part of their personal identity - and I get it, but you should keep it to yourself when interacting with people you work with (this is why I have a strict policy about keeping anyone I work with in a professional relationship only - we work together, we’re not best buds).
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